Unserious CNN

Bird Dog's picture

[Upated at the end]

At least CNN is consistent. At the Democratic debate, CNN was faced with planted Democratic operatives and activists asking questions, and at the Republican debate, there were Democratic operatives and activists asking questions. At the very minimum, CNN is guilty of false advertising. They promised one thing...

"There are quite a few things you might describe as Democratic 'gotchas,' and we are weeding those out," Mr. Bohrman said. CNN wants to ensure that next Wednesday’s Republican event is "a debate of their party."

...and delivered something else. Michelle Malkin may be a partisan pundit, but her reporting on the questioners was factual. Borhman also said this:
The debate format remains the same as it did for Democrats in July. CNN's political team will review the submissions and choose about 40 videos that can be used Wednesday. David Bohrman, CNN's Washington bureau chief and the mastermind behind the format, said he heard from two campaigns - he won't name which - expressing concerns about the selection process and the perceived liberal bias of CNN, dubbed by many conservatives as the "Clinton News Network."

"Some of the Republican candidates don't trust us. They're not completely convinced that we're going to wean out the Democratic gotcha questions," Bohrman said. "But I've been very clear from the beginning: This will be a Republican debate, and the goal is to let Republican voters see their candidates."


John Fund puts it in perspective:
Now it appears that an amazing number of partisan figures posed many of the 30 questions at the GOP debate all the while pretending to be CNN’s advertised "undecided voters." Yasmin from Huntsville, Alabama turns out to be a former intern with the Council on American Islamic Relations, a group highly critical of Republicans. Blogger Michelle Malkin has identified other plants, including declared Obama supporter David Cercone, who asked a question about the pro-gay Log Cabin Republicans. A questioner who asked a hostile question about the pro-life views of GOP candidates turned out to be a diehard John Edwards supporter (and a slobbering online fan of Mr. Cooper). Yet another “plant” was LeeAnn Anderson, an activist with a union that has endorsed Mr. Edwards.

It seems more "plants" are being uprooted with each passing day. Almost a third of the questioners seem to have some ties to Democratic causes or candidates. Another questioner worked with Democratic Senator Dick Durbin’s staff. A former intern with Democratic Rep. Jane Harman asked a question about farm subsidies. A questioner who purported to be a Ron Paul supporter turns out to be a Bill Richardson volunteer. David McMillan, a TV writer from Los Angeles, turns out to have several paens to John Edwards on his YouTube page and has attended Barack Obama fundraisers.

Given CNN’s professed goal to have "ordinary Americans" ask questions at their GOP debate, how likely is that it was purely by accident that so many of the videos CNN selected for use were not just from partisans, but people actively hostile to the GOP’s messages and candidates?


This sorry episode goes beyond incompetence and well into the realm of media bias. This is CNN, and this is the mainstream media we have. Every picture tells a story, don't it:

According to Gallup, if you're a Democrat, mainstream news coverage seems about right, maybe even a little conservative, which explains why so many Democrats are so clueless about media bias. Republicans and independents have a decidedly different opinion about the way the news is being covered. So who's right? I wrote about this at Tacitus during 2004 campaign, where Pew Research came out with a poll on national and local media, and here are the self-described poltical views of national media:

The facts are that 36% of national print media described themselves as liberal and only 8% as conservative. National broadcast media has roughly the same percentage of conservatives, but a lower percentage of liberals (20%). This assumes, of course, that these self-descriptions are reasonably accurate. It could be very well be true that those who think of themselves as "moderate" are really left-of-center, or vice versa. Perhaps a more telling measure is to follow the money, or put it more accurately, politicial contributions to candidates:

MSNBC.com identified 143 journalists who made political contributions from 2004 through the start of the 2008 campaign, according to the public records of the Federal Election Commission. Most of the newsroom checkbooks leaned to the left: 125 journalists gave to Democrats and liberal causes. Only 16 gave to Republicans. Two gave to both parties.

Quite a stunning contrast. Of course, this only covers a fraction of all mainstream journalists, so is there another measure? Yes. There's that UCLA study:

Here's a description of their methodology:

In this paper we estimate ADA (Americans for Democratic Action) scores for major media outlets such as the New York Times, USA Today, Fox News’ Special Report, and all three network television news shows. Our estimates allow us to answer such questions as “Is the average article in the New York Times more liberal than the average speech by Tom Daschle?” or “Is the average story on Fox News more conservative than the average speech by Bill Frist?” To compute our measure, we count the times that a media outlet cites various think tanks and other policy groups. We compare this with the times that members of Congress cite the same think tanks in their speeches on the floor of the House and Senate. By comparing the citation patterns we construct an ADA score. As a simplified example, imagine that there were only two think tanks, one liberal and one conservative. Suppose that the New York Times cited the liberal think tank twice as often as the conservative one. Our method asks: What is the typical ADA score of members of Congress who exhibit the same frequency (2:1) in their speeches? This is the score that we would assign to the New York Times. Our results show a strong liberal bias. All of the news outlets except Fox News’ Special Report and the Washington Times received a score to the left of the average member of Congress. Consistent with many conservative critics, CBS Evening News and the New York Times received a score far left of center. Outlets such as the Washington Post, USA Today, NPR’s Morning Edition, NBC’s Nightly News and ABC’s World News Tonight were moderately left. The most centrist outlets (but still left-leaning) by our measure were the Newshour with Jim Lehrer, CNN’s NewsNight with Aaron Brown, and ABC’s Good Morning America. Fox News’ Special Report, while right of center, was closer to the center than any of the three major networks’ evening news broadcasts. All of our findings refer strictly to the news stories of the outlets. That is, we omitted editorials, book reviews, and letters to the editor from our sample.

At CNN, Anderson Cooper and his crew are biased, either wittingly or unwittingly. The editors at Redstate are right (which is why my name is on the list). CNN's handling of the debate was unacceptable, there should be a do-over, and somebody should get sacked. They were so enthralled with General Kerr--a Hillary political operative--that they flew him to Florida (and about a dozen others) so he could ask his gays-in-the-military question in person. If they actually had a Republican on staff (and I seriously doubt they did), they would've known that this issue is peripheral at best to the party faithful. CNN's problem reminds me of something Jonah Goldberg wrote over three years ago, not long after Dan Rather and Mary Mapes blew up their careers over forged memos:
I have discovered the solution to liberal media bias. What mainstream journalism needs are more stupid people.

Conservative critics of the journo-industrial complex might dismiss this advice as merely adding more jelly-beans to the jar. Liberal journalists would regard it as absurd, because surely it is their genius that makes them special. Why would the temple want any - much less, more - stupid priests?

Well, it turns out that having a few stupid people in the group makes the group smarter. I've long suspected this, but I found confirmation in James Surowiecki's new book, "The Wisdom of Crowds."

It works like this. Groups of experts tend to reinforce their own views, particularly because experts believe in the authority of experts, causing them to defer to the super-expert in the group. Stupid people are, to put it bluntly, too stupid to defer to smart people. Remember the story about the truck that got jammed in the tunnel because it was too tall? All the experts were stumped. But some kid yelled, "Let the air out of the tires," saving the day. This is essentially the moral of the fable of "The Emperor's New Clothes." Substitute kids with morons and you get the same thing.

We've all been in meetings where the token idiot says something absurd and everyone reflexively groans. But then someone says, "Wait a second, Lothar may be on to something." The utility of the muttonhead is that he's too dim to cotton on to the groupthink and therefore is more likely to raise unconventional ideas.

This, according to Surowiecki, is the value of diversity within groups. He doesn't dwell on the need for stupid people per se, but he's fairly persuasive that even the "smartest" groups of experts are often outsmarted by more diverse groups that boast members with far less impressive credentials. For example, Scott Page, a political scientist at the University of Michigan, ran a series of computer models pitting all-smart groups of agents against other groups of more diverse agents ranging from not-so-smart to smart. The group with the lower average intelligence was almost always better at solving problems than the smarter one.

The bulk of the Wisdom of Crowds is a defense of the collective intelligence of markets and the like (Surowiecki is a financial columnist for The New Yorker). But the example of media bias struck a chord with me from the beginning. I've never bought the more conspiratorial conservative theories about liberal media bias. I agree that it exists, I just don't think it's nearly as deliberate and conscious as some on the right think. Most liberal journalists I've known truly believe they are consummate professionals. And for that reason alone, a lot of biased coverage has to be the result of something other than deliberate plotting. That something else is liberal groupthink.

For example, my guess is that Dan Rather truly believes he fell for those forged documents because he was just trying to get a scoop. But no one at CBS raised the necessary objections because they were all eager to nail Bush. No one - not even an idiot - said, "Hey maybe we should take an extra week to make sure these things are real." Not even after their own consultants said the documents were iffier than a new "Rollecks" watch. If the target had been a Democrat, the usual safeguards would have kicked in.


CNN could have used a few of those safeguards.

Update: Tim Rutten is definitely not a right-of-center person, and he is definitely not nice to CNN:

Corruption is a strong word. But consider these facts: The gimmick behind Wednesday's debate was that the questions would be selected from those that ordinary Americans submitted to the video sharing Internet website YouTube, which is owned by Google. According to CNN, its staff culled through 5,000 submissions to select the handful that were put to the candidates. That process essentially puts the lie to the vox populi aura the association with YouTube was meant to create. When producers exercise that level of selectivity, the questions -- whoever initially formulated and recorded them -- actually are theirs.

That's where things begin to get troubling, because CNN chose to devote the first 35 minutes of this critical debate to a single issue -- immigration. Now, if that leaves you scratching your head, it's probably because you're included in the 96% of Americans who do not think immigration is the most important issue confronting this country. We've got a pretty good fix concerning what's on the American mind right now, because the nonpartisan and highly reliable Pew Center has been regularly polling people since January on the issues that matter most to them. In fact, the center's most recent survey was conducted in the days leading up to Wednesday's debate.

HERE'S what Pew found: By an overwhelming margin, Americans think the war in Iraq is the most important issue facing the United States, followed by the economy, healthcare and energy prices. In fact, if you lump the war into a category with terrorism and other foreign policy issues, 40% of Americans say foreign affairs are their biggest concern in this election cycle. If you do something similar with all issues related to the economy, 31% list those questions as their most worrisome issue. As anybody who has looked at their 401(k) or visited a gas pump would expect, that aggregate figure has increased dramatically since Pew started polling in January. Back then, for example, concerns over the war outpaced economic anxieties by fully 8 to 1. By contrast, just 6% of the survey's national sample said that immigration was the most important electoral issue. Moreover, that number hasn't changed in a statistically meaningful way since the first of the year. In other words, more than nine out of 10 Americans think something matters more than immigration in this presidential election.

So, why did CNN make immigration the keystone of this debate? What standard dictated the decision to give that much time to an issue so remote from the majority of voters' concerns? The answer is that CNN's most popular news-oriented personality, Lou Dobbs, has made opposition to illegal immigration and free trade the centerpiece of his neonativist/neopopulist platform. In fact, Dobbs led into Wednesday's debate with a good solid dose of immigrant bashing. His network is in a desperate ratings battle with Fox News and, in a critical prime-time slot, with MSNBC's Keith Olbermann. So, what's good for Dobbs is good for CNN.

In other words, CNN intentionally directed the Republicans' debate to advance its own interests. Make immigration a bigger issue and you've made a bigger audience for Dobbs.

That's corruption, and it's why the Republican candidates had to spend more than half an hour "debating" an issue on which their differences are essentially marginal -- and, more important, why GOP voters had to sit and wait, mostly in vain, for the issues that really concern them to be discussed. That's particularly true because that same Pew poll reported findings of particular relevance to Republican voters, the vast majority of whom continue to support the war in Iraq.


Still is why I say that questions about gays in the military are legitimate but peripheral. Liberals who say otherwise really don't know what they're talking about.
--


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Gays in the military

(#68557)

If the issue were "peripheral at best," then the candidates would have answered the question. Duncan Hunter was probably the only one who came close to giving a straight answer rather than dodging the issue.

Hunter:

... having openly homosexual people serving in the ranks would be bad for unit cohesion. And the reason for that, even though people point to the Israelis and point to the Brits and point to other people as having homosexuals serve, is that most Americans, most kids who leave that breakfast table and go out and serve in the military and make that corporate decision with their family, most of them are conservatives. And they have conservative values, and they have Judeo-Christian values. And to force those people to work in a small, tight unit with somebody who is openly homosexual, who goes against what they believe to be their principles -- and it is their principles -- is I think a disservice to them. ...

Huckabee:

The Uniform Code of Military Justice is probably the best rule, and it has to do with conduct. People have a right to have whatever feelings, whatever attitudes they wish, but when their conduct could put at risk the morale, or put at risk even the cohesion that Duncan Hunter spoke of, I think that's what is at issue. And that's why our policy is what it is.

McCain:

... this policy ought to be continued because it's working.

And of course, Romney's tap dancing performance:

COOPER: [Former Massachusetts] Governor [Mitt] Romney, you said in 1994 that you looked forward to the day when gays and lesbians could serve, and I quote, "openly and honestly in our nation's military." Do you stand by that?

ROMNEY: This isn't that time. This is not that time. We're in the middle of a war. The people who have watched --

COOPER: Do you look forward to that time, though, one day?

ROMNEY: I'm going to listen to the people who run the military to see what the circumstances are like, and my view is that, at this stage, this is not the time for us to make that kind of a change.

COOPER: Is that a change in your position from --

ROMNEY: Yeah, I didn't think it would work. I didn't think "don't ask, don't tell" would work. That was my -- I didn't think that would work. I thought that was a policy -- when I heard about it, I laughed. I said, "That doesn't make any sense to me." And you know what? It's been there now for, what, 15 years? It seems to have worked.

COOPER: So, just so I'm clear, at this point, do you still look forward to a day when gays can serve openly in the military or no longer?

ROMNEY: I look forward to hearing from the military exactly what they believe is the right way to have the right kind of cohesion and support in our troops, and I'll listen to what they have to say.

I guess I agree with Redstate reader "Old School" when he writes:

When a candidate is asked point blank about a previous statement given on gays in the military and he refuses to answer the question because of the temporal political consequences, you're watching pure theater. I'm a conservative and I want to see conservative principles prevail. But I'm not interested in a Access Hollywood debate where the only statements are appeals to the lowest and, by the way, least intellectually sound arguments. Most of these men have extraordinary experience and the minds to go with it. Why must the American electorate endure this mindless crap? Has that what the most envied democracy in the world has come to? Furthermore, there are voters in this country who are neither Republican nor Democrat. Those people have a right to watch and learn (if possible) the positions of the candidates in these debates. Debates are not an opportunities for either Republicans or Democrats to sit around and pat each other on the back for the most nauseatingly cliched political sound bite of the night.

you know it i know it

(#68556)

You know that CNN is biased against Republicans. I know that CNN is biased against Republicans. The Republicans too must have known this before the gayquestion incident. What could possibly been on their mind when they agreed to participate in this 'event'?

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

Self-Described Political Views of the Media

(#68555)

If you're taking survey like this about your own profession, you have every incentive to lie and later claim underrepresentation.

"Liberal Media Bias" = "It's not Fox News"

(#68553)

1. There were Republican gotcha questions in the Dem debate -- CNN did not skew the questioning any more than they did for Dems.

CNN has that conservative hack Glen Beck -- he survives despite miserable ratings and a miserable show when no liberal with the same numbers would ever be given the same platform.

2. All of the pretty graphics re "media bias" prove only one thing -- conservatives subjectively like to whine about media bias whether or not it is true. Please -- polls about what conservatives think on this topic do not prove media bias. I have seen enough posts from BD to know that "media bias" means news without the conservative Fox slant.

3. Low level people in the media tend to be Democrats - the elite tend to be Republicans. Guess who has the final say in the look and feel of the news? A good indicator of this are the guests on the Sunday morning talk shows -- they always favor conservatives.

There is no "liberal" mainstream media as conservatives constantly whine.

4. ...gays-in-the-military question in person. If they actually had a Republican on staff (and I seriously doubt they did), they would've known that this issue is peripheral at best to the party faithful.

Uh, it has been the signature issue of the faithful in your party for the last few cycles, which happens to make up a rather large faction of your party. I guess you agree that all of the gay-bashing by your party was just cynical fluff to get out those votes -- no true GOP believer gives it any attention, right?

And it says a lot that the response to Kerr is everything except a substantive answer to his question. How terrible that the question got asked!

5. The "Wisdom of Crowds" nonsense is ridiculous. The media is a cutthroat business that does not act in Group Think no matter how much Jonah Goldberg wants to imagine it to be. It is highly factional and jealous, and will turn on itself in seconds to make a buck.

Funny

(#68577)
Bird Dog's picture

I have seen enough posts from BD to know that "mediabias" means news without the conservative Fox slant.

Apparently, you haven't seen enough of my posts, or least read them with any measure of comprehension.

All of the pretty graphics re "media bias" prove only one thing -- conservatives subjectively like to whine about media bias whether or not it is true.

Actually, they don't prove that one thing. You are just making a declarative opinion, not a statement of fact.

Guess who has the final say in the look and feel of the news?

The producers,the executive producers, and the "talent". Do you really think Olbermann and Matthews get their instructions from the CEO of GE? Do you really think Dan Rather got his instructions from the Viacom suits before he drove his career over a cliff? Do you really think?

...it has been the signature issue of the faithful in your party for the last few cycles, which happens to make up a rather large faction of your party.

The signature issue? Your ignorance of our signature issues knows no bounds, dm. You truly have no idea what you're talking about, and disguising opinion as fact does not mask your breathtaking lack of knowledge.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

The role of "talent" in shaping news

(#68836)

Your analysis is like saying that a large corporation, most of whose employees are Democrats and members of unions, must be presumed to be liberal based on the views of so many rank and file. Isn't that obviously flawed logic?

Most of the on-air media talent are actors reading scripts. They take direction from news producers and directors on how to behave in a manner very similar to any other entertainment product. The front line print media personnel are taking direction from editors -- there is very little independence from management, which controls the shape of the news as a product to sell.

I would posit that the prevailing business model for news product is that liberal does not sell in view of rabid conservative hostility, and the notion that the media is some large liberal force is just laughably wrong. It stems more from your prejudice about how you perceive news than any rational analysis of bias.

Dan Rather was an exception and at the end of an era. If anything, his labored effort to be just like Murrow was his weakness. Olbermann is also an exception, and the fact that he has struggled to gain prominence in his company despite strong ratings is an example of the anti-liberal mindset of so much news programming.

Matthews is a clueless moron who definitely follows the fashion of news, but is not very skilled at it. He is not liberal, though I am sure someone far right might think so.

Talent has to rise to that level of popularity to have any role in the look and feel of news. Even at that level, their influence is still junior to management. Company policies definitely shape the news in a way that is not liberal leaning. Trying to prove alleged liberal media bias based on surveys of the views of the rank and file just does not wash. Perhaps someday you will recognize that your obsession with "liberal media" is a prejudice rather than rational analysis.

Flawed logic?

(#68876)
Bird Dog's picture

Matthews has been a Democrat for decades and worked for Tip O'Neill. He may be "clueless moron", but he's also one of yours. Do you have any evidence to suggest that he is getting his instructions from GE suits? Or that MSNBC producers are getting instructions from GE corporate?

Then there's Olbermann, continuing with my example. If Olbermann gets his instructions from anywhere, they're from MediaMatters and ThinkProgress. The business model of his show is doing just fine, which is why MSNBC floated a trial balloon about hiring Rosie O'Donnell. Or is Olbermann just another non-liberal "clueless moron"?

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Matthews

(#68881)

Matthews may have worked for O'Neill, but he's a misogynist authority-worshipping jerkwad. His mancrush on Bush 43 is embarrassing to watch.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

Please practice introspection

(#68835)

It is amazing to me how often your retorts state assertions that apply directly to yourself.

As for the graphs, don't you understand that an opinion about what people think measures their perception -- not the reality. An example is a poll of the general populace as to whether or not people believe Iran has a nuclear weapons program. If 75% said yes, does that mean Iran has a nuclear weapons program? Of course not. The same is true of polls regarding conservatives as to whether they believe Saddam was involved in 911. A much too large percentage answer yes even those there is no evidence to support that belief.

The same logic applies to your graphs about media bias -- they measure perception rather than reality. Please learn to employ logic. Or perhaps you believe that perception is reality, which would explain a lot.

And back at you

(#68873)
Bird Dog's picture

Especially when you say you've read me for awhile and then make claims that are categorically false.

The first graphs include opinions, but the last graph is about as objective a measure as you'll find.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Sheesh! Are you

(#68877)

two going to need a time out? Don't make me come over there!!!

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

Hello

(#68841)

dmbeaster. Nice to see a new face around here (or are you an old poster under a new name?). Anyhoo ... your title is...well...kinda... skirting the posting rules a tad. Remember, attack the comments not the commenter. Thanx

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

The first sign of a losing argument

(#68587)
HankP's picture

insulting someone who disagrees with you. You're already down there pretty deep, stop digging.

I blame it all on the Internet

The insult goes both ways

(#68668)
Bird Dog's picture

dm and I have a little history here.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Just more modern republican

(#68590)

SOP:

Attack, attack and attack some more while playing the victim.

Substance-free comment award of the week. Congrats.

(#68846)

-o-0-o-

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

Is this a joke?

(#68849)

Because the above post is an attack, with an implicit claim of victimization.

I mean . . . wow. Yeah.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

I get the "wow. yeah." part of your comment, but not the rest of

(#68853)

it. If you are referring to my comment, you must have victimization on your mind, because none is stated or implied there. I'm just responding to another silly comment along the lines of "all Republicans do x, y, or z."

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

Okay, this is kind of off-topic,

(#68584)

but why do you read people who are flat-out known to be terrible? I'm talking about Michael Medved, slavery apologist. Or Jonah Goldberg, cheeto-encrusted Keyboard Kommando.

I mean, I understand that the fact that Mankiw is a hack* isn't readily apparent. But some of these guys are really odious, so why that decision?

*Statement of bias: I teach econ with Mankiw's textbooks, so I feel particularly betrayed by his decision to switch profession from "economist" to "lying hack."

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

Flat-out known?

(#68669)
Bird Dog's picture

By whom? Your fellow liberal friends? Once again, you write as if you're stating fact, but it's really dressed-up opinion. FTR, Medved is not a slavery apologist. You are slandering him.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Since it's in print, that would be libel

(#68706)
HankP's picture

except that PM is correct, I've heard Medved make the same arguments before. His position is that even if the US has done things that were wrong (and by US he means any actions that fit in with the current conservative ideology), it still worked out better than the alternative. This, of course, is a dressed up opinion unless he has an actual working alternative history viewer. He is a slavery and Confederate apologist - I've heard him refer to the Civil War as "The War of Northern Aggression".

I blame it all on the Internet

You're wrong

(#68815)
Bird Dog's picture

I heard him shortly after he wrote his piece, and he was emphatic that slavery is evil. He made his point in the context of reparations. He calls the American Civil War the "War Between the States", not the "War of Northern Aggression". Having listened to him since '98, I know what I'm talking about.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

I've heard him call the Civil War

(#68891)
HankP's picture

the War of Northern Aggression. Maybe he doesn't anymore, I don't listen often enough to know (I actually don't listen to him at all anymore since he has zero credibility and is happy to make stuff up and/or misrepresent stuff to support his positions). I also know what I'm talking about.

His typical position is "we (the US) didn't do anything wrong, and if we did it worked out better than the alternative". I've heard him discuss Hawaii with "we stole it fair and square" line and then go on about how the Hawaiians have it better now than if they had kept their own government.

I also heard him refuse to discuss Limbaugh's drug problems because Limbaugh gave him his start in radio (nice trick, I wonder if it applies to everyone that helps him out commercially). I also hear him say "I am not a victim" and then go on to complain about how he's victimized by those horrible liberals. The guy has zero credibility, I'm not sure why you're defending him, except that he's definitely not as inane as some of the other conservative hosts here in the Seattle area.

I blame it all on the Internet

Just defending against slander, that's all

(#68910)
Bird Dog's picture

Again, he has stated emphatically on multiple occasions that slavery is evil. I really don't see how you or PM can reconcile his being a "slavery apologist" when he has universally condemned the practice.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Medved and slavery.

(#68697)

He wrote a column called Six Inconvenient Truths about the US and Slavery.

While his first five points are merely tendentious ickiness, his sixth point is an outright apologia:

6. THERE IS NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT TODAY’S AFRICAN-AMERICANS WOULD BE BETTER OFF IF THEIR ANCESTORS HAD REMAINED BEHIND IN AFRICA.

I'm sorry, but the man is odious.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

It's not an endorsement of slavery

(#68814)
Bird Dog's picture

He was talking specifically about reparations, comparing the standard of living in the U.S. versus the standard of living in the African nations that exported slaves. Try a little reading comprehension.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Medved: You're supporting my point.

(#68842)

He was talking about how much better off the American descendants of slaves have it now than if their ancestors had not been captured, deprived of their liberty, and bought and sold as property.

Your response is that this is not an apologia. You agree with him that the question of whether or not one is owed reparations for gross historical wrongs has to do with how persons who share one's skin color fared under colonialist rule.*

The argument is odious. I wouldn't bother to read someone who advanced it and then did not retract immediately.

*I guess that explains the delay in giving reparations to interned Japanese-Americans; we had to wait until the Japanese standard of living caught up with ours in order to have a moral justification. So there is a certain internal consistency.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

You shifted your point

(#68871)
Bird Dog's picture

You accused him of being a "slavery apologist". He isn't. You can oppose slavery AND reparations at the same time.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

No, I did not shift my point re: Medved.

(#68879)

I included the word 'apolgia' in my statement for a reason. To be more explicit: you brought up something which you believed mitigated the apologist charge. My response was that I believe the thing you brought up served to reinforce the 'apologist' charge.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

Up is down, down is up

(#68908)
Bird Dog's picture

nt

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Let me be even more clear, then:

(#68920)

This argument against reparations is fundamentally racist. It states that because other people who have common ancestors (who happen to be black skinned) with the folks who are the descendants of slaves in the US live in conditions worse than those endured by African-Americans here, no actions which were taken against said African-Americans can constitute moral failure which demands reparation.

The use of a racist argument to justify not paying reparations is consistent with an overall apologist state of being.

Apologism doesn't have to mean trumpeting something as positive. It can also mean unreasonably or ahistorically minimizing the horror. Medved's statement, "Perhaps the most horrifying aspect of these voyages involves the fact that no slave traders wanted to see this level of deadly suffering: they benefited only from delivering (and selling) live slaves, not from tossing corpses into the ocean." is characteristic of this. The most horrifying aspect of the voyages was their terrible conditions combined with the fact that those who survived "won" the right to be owned as property.

Even Medved's second point -- 2. SLAVERY EXISTED ONLY BRIEFLY, AND IN LIMITED LOCALES, IN THE HISTORY OF THE REPUBLIC – INVOLVING ONLY A TINY PERCENTAGE OF THE ANCESTORS OF TODAY’S AMERICANS. -- implicitly ignores the persons who are descendants of slaves, concentrating exclusively on persons who are descendants of slaveowners.

I mean, read whoever you like. But yeah, Medved's arguments in this area are foul.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

Okay, It's Way Off Topic

(#68545)

But the idea that anything would remind you of anything Jonah Goldberg has written is sorta scary.

“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco

Be fair, Harley

(#68551)
HankP's picture

Goldberg apparently called the movie A Simple Plan "profoundly conservative". Since it's about greed and fratricide, I think he got that one right.

I blame it all on the Internet

Conservatives give 30% more to charity than liberals

(#68845)

on average, according to a variety of sources. Please reconcile that figure with your "greed" accusation.

And perhaps you could explain the association between conservatives and fratricide, because that one makes no sense to me either.

A Simple Plan was a very good, if somewhat depressing* book IMO, particularly for a first effort. (Smith's latest, The Ruins, is a real downer but again, well-written.) I saw nothing remotely political in it; it just is a good story that plausibly treats the dissolution of friendships and families when a huge $$$ windfall appears. (An even better example IMO is the movie Shallow Graves.) AFA the movie, I admit to liking Bill Paxton. I think working your way up from car commercials to second-tier stardom is impressive in itself. Greenberg's attempt to find an overweening (overweenie?) politico-religious theme in the movie is cretinous.

*Opening sentence: "My parents died in an automobile accident the year after I was married."

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

Don't you mean "religious people"?

(#68893)

And isn't the vast bulk of their giving to their own church (conservative or otherwise)?

If not I'd like to see the figures you're basing this number on.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Uh, that was a joke

(#68885)
HankP's picture

and really, the gist of it was summed up in your comment - "Greenberg's(sic) attempt to find an overweening (overweenie?) politico-religious theme in the movie is cretinous". That was my point.

I haven't read the book, but I thought the movie was quite well done, but definitely not the feel-good movie of the year.

I blame it all on the Internet

OK, then I retract and substitute "Har."

(#68887)

If you thought the movie version of A Simple Plan was depressing, you definitely do not want to read The Ruins.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

No offense

(#68895)

But I couldn't even finish The Ruins... I thought it was beyond bad and into the realm of laughable. Also boring.

Torture/horror porn with possibly the silliest monster ever conceived.

Never read A Simple Plan, but liked the movie.

Charity numbers

(#68847)

What are the odds you'd be extremely aware of the methodological issues associated with those studies if they came out that liberals gave 30% more than conservatives?

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

Feel free to lay them out instead of backdooring your criticism.

(#68851)

But first, please try to justify the "Republicans = greed" tenor of the comment I was responding to. Without creating methodological issues, of course.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

I think we had this conversation a couple years ago.

(#68855)

The big issues are:

1) The studies are based on tax returns. Charity donations only show up if one itemizes. Most folks who rent don't itemize. Renting is an urban activity. Urban areas are blue areas.

2) The studies do not compensate for household composition or cost of living. Someone making 40k in Highland, IL is in a vastly different place than someone making 40k in Chicago, IL.

3) A lot (granted, not all) of the difference is in Church giving -- and a lot of Church giving stays within the community of the Church. It's not clear if that's outright charity or membership in a (often highly socially positive) club.

I make no comment regarding the original statement (which I see as snark); I merely wished to discuss the charity issue.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

Fair enough. I'm not pushing the issue, just responding

(#68892)

to the "greed" accusation. Without accepting it, I'm not going to argue over your synopsis of past debates and discussions on this subject except to say that I disagree with your characterization about Church giving (which I do not do myself, btw.) Generally, though, I respect giving more if it's anonymous, even though the actual dollars to the charity don't vary from those given by a donor who's on the front page of the newspaper announcing his gift.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

Triple yawn

(#68540)

Not another "the media is against us" silliness from conservatives?

This place is my vacation.

So what it boils down to is that

(#68471)


educated and intelligent people are more liberal...

hum.

Or that debate, skeptical analysis and questioning are
seen as 'liberal values'.

Its just a model, you wouldn't want to bank on it.

I would not say that intelligent people are either liberal or

(#68473)

conservative... I would say they are the ones that hate political discourse and the media the most. They regardless of party are much more inclined to hate the lack of substance than others. Still I would bet that substantive debate would in fact benefit liberal positions more than conservative ones. Liberals do nuance better IMHO they deal in the gray areas were conservatives seem to draw more distinct lines. That is of course just MHO...

Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and yo

regarding nuance

(#68474)

Not that any of it was worth reading, but you've evidently missed all the "Republicans are Fascists" crap 'round these parts lately.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Sadly no I didn't miss it.

(#68475)

Authoritarian maybe? fascists tendencies maybe? Still the debate was like tossing stuff at canvass and calling it art... Still in a sound bite world we will never get into fixing real issues or even agreeing they are or should be dealt with. Seems a sad way to form a more perfect union or deal with tough subjects involved in preparing the country for the future.

Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and yo

Maybe?

(#68539)

I'd say fascist tendencies for sure. But then again, I'm sure we've both worn brown shirts, so we have facists tendencies too.

The problem that progressives (what I assume you mean by liberal) have is convincing people to look at their version of the big picture while ignoring what's in front of their faces. Being from PA, it really means something when I say Kansas has shiddy roads. After driving a few of those, and recognizing that government is doing a crummy job there, how do you then convince people that their interests are best served by having the government provide more services?

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Re: roads in PA versus Kansas

(#68543)

PA spends >3x more on highways. Maybe the problem isn't that government inherently does a crummy job but rather that some governments don't devote sufficient resources to that job?

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

jam all AM radio frequencies?

(#68541)

how do you then convince people that their interests are best served by having the government provide more services?

and in its absence, maybe they'll arrive at the idea themselves?

mandatory school road trips to the NE? pump in images of W. Europe over the tube?

but seriously I think rural flight has hit Kansas as hard as any state and the # of ghost towns and underfunded municipalities is as high there as anywhere.

Or were you talking about even bad roads in major cities?

The point isn't the roads

(#68560)

The point is that any of us could point to areas where the govt doesn't do a good job. Since the progressive solution to almost any issue is more government it's not an out of left field question to ask "Since you've done a losy job on issues A thru C, why should I expect you to do a good job on issue D?"

Tie that back into Da's assertion that liberals have an advantage in a debate, I'm just pointing out a disadvantage.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I'm not happy

(#68561)
HankP's picture

with how insurance companies work. They just don't do a good job, despite all the money I spend on them. So I'm sure you'll agree with me that we should vote to cut our insurance payments until they straighten up and do a better job. Imagine how much of OUR money they're wasting on administration and stuff.

I blame it all on the Internet

Or put another way

(#68563)

your insurance company doesn't do a good job. Now it wants to raise your premium so it can do your landscaping. Imagine if it did your dishes too.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I guess I have to spell it out

(#68566)
HankP's picture

if an organization isn't doing a good job in a particular area, the answer is not to simply cut it's budget in the hopes it will fix itself. One has to analyze what the organization is doing and how it is doing it in order to make it do a better job. Now analyzing whether the organization should be doing what it is doing is part of that, but when an organization has a task that it has to do (in government, because enough people have enough political power to enact it or not enough people have the political power to eliminate it) then you actually need good managers to run the company. When corporations want the best managerial talent, they spend a lot of money on it. If the private sector is better at allocating resources than government, then surely we should take their lead and pay managers more than we are currently paying them, no?

Besides, government doesn't wash my dishes, they only take on big programs that the free market usually isn't interested in because they don't turn a profit. Some stuff just doesn't get done if government doesn't handle it. The real problem is that people like to complain about things in general but don't often know much about the positions of the people they are voting for, especially in local elections.

I blame it all on the Internet

different, yes

(#68470)

According to Gallup, if you're a Democrat, mainstream news coverage seems about right, maybe even a little conservative, which explains why so many Democrats are so clueless about media bias. Republicans and independents have a decidedly different opinion about the way the news is being covered.

Yes, independents sure think differently, seeing as according to that graph, more independents think the media is too conservative than Democrats do, 25% to 22%, respectively. I guess those dastardly independents are just getting more and more liberal these days, eh?

To be honest, I'd rather media outlets just embrace their bias and stop pretending like they are, much less can be, balanced and unbiased. I'd much prefer media that openly supports one party or the other rather than dealing with the "who's biased towards who" debate.

Ledt me add my "Yawn" to heet's

(#68469)
Jay C's picture

re # 68423

All that keyboard time, BD, and the best you have to show for it yet another stale "liberal media bias" whine? Why? Because you think a single-party debate among Presidential candidates ought to consist of softball "questions" designed to merely allow them opportunities to spout stock partisan talking-points? Or that debate audiences ought to be pre-vetted for "political correctness" (a la GW Bush's phony Social Security "town meetings")?

All that Gallup graph you duplicated (and seem to put so much stock in) shows is that Republicans have some deep-seated distrust of "The Media" while everyone else seems to be more-or-less OK with it. Why is that? More "liberal bias"? Or is it maybe that the Right in this country is just so uncomfortable with the idea of any challenges to their smug little ideological self-righteousness that they just can't deal with the fact that they, not the (mostly straw) "liberals" and/or "leftists" they love to flail at are the ones out of the mainstream?

"Unserious CNN"? Vs. the oh-so-Serious RedState and even-more-Serious Jonah Goldberg? Puh-leeeze!

Touchy

(#68479)
Bird Dog's picture

And full of strawmen and mindreading, too, Jay. The only question that I criticized was Gen. Kerr's, because it's a peripheral issue to Republicans. I didn't say anywhere that I preferred or wanted softball questions.

And way to misinterpret the data. What it shows is that conservatives have good reason for distrust of mainstream media narratives, and CNN's pitiful event did nothing to dissuade from that distrust. Do you have anything substantive, or is this just a chance for you sermonize about our so-called "ideological self-righteousness"?

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Feely?

(#68482)
Jay C's picture

Why would you consider Gen. Kerr's question about allowing gays to serve openly in the military a "peripheral issue to Republicans"? It is certainly a legitimate issue - especially as the next President (whoever is elected) is probably going to have moderately-serious manpower problems in the Armed Services to have to deal with. Leaving aside, for the moment, the issue of who asked the question at the debate (which seems, AFAICT, one of, if not the main yawping-points emanating from starboard over this) - WHY do think this is not an issue to be raised at a Presidential debate. And also, BD: do you think a question about gays in the military would be out-of-place or "peripheral" in a debate amongst the Democratic candidates (and if so, why)?

And your analysis of my "misinterpretation" of the (?) Gallup Poll data? Well, I guess that's a matter of - err, interpretation. You see "conservatives distrust the media because it's biased against them", I see "conservatives distrust the media because it isn't biased in their favor". A subtle difference, maybe: but then, political stuff doesn't always deal well with "subtle".

Legitimate, but still peripheral

(#68532)
Bird Dog's picture

The GOP is more concerned about the candidate who has the best plan to win Iraq, prevail in Afghanistan, build a stronger and smarter military, deal with Pakistan, improve veterans' health care, kill or capture bin Laden, get North Korea to a verifiable agreement, discourage Iran from building atomic bombs, secure the borders, go after al Qaeda terrorists here and abroad, and so and so forth. Gays in the military ranks about 27th on the list for your typical legitimate GOP questioner, which again is why CNN did such a disservice. It did little to nothing to help Republican voters decide on a candidate.

If the issue is a bigger deal for Democrats, then I suspect that a Democratic questioner would bring it up, but that would be for the donks to decide in this primary season, not the GOP. The general election is a different matter, and any issue goes.

For me personally, I'm agnostic on the issue. I really don't care enough to have a strong opinion one way or the other, and I suspect a lot of Republicans are in a similar boat.

"...I ended the war in Iraq."

--Barack Obama, October 2012

Why do conservatives have good reason to distrust mainstream

(#68481)

media narratives anymore than liberals? What part of MA response do you disagree with?
I'd describe the media as, in this order:

1. Pro corporate interests
2. Opportunistic
3. Economically conservative
4. Socially liberal

The funny thing is looking back at media it never seemed that liberal to me. It was pro-free market anti-union or labor. It was socially conservative or at the least mainstream. It showed balence in a time of moderation. That the GOP does not resemble the GOP of that era is beside the point. In fact Some of Nixon's issues seem outright liberal by comparison. Still IMHO it is not that the media is not more liberal on some issues. Social issues it is more than likely moved with the country. That I see the country as more liberal is perhaps my own view alone. That the country is less liberal in matters of business and labor is also something I see. Are these just views we hold that are different or are they part and parcel of an America that is just a melting pot of different views and sub-cultures?
Is their a starting point to define the conservative or liberal views of the society? If you look at the GOP candidates they are a hash of the different interest groups of the party. From the good to the bad..IMHO... Still the average person if honest holds differing views on liberal and conservative and probably holds both to one degree or another or any given topic it is called compromise and or accommodation to the whole over the ideological purity see in some quarters.

Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and yo

I propose a second round of CNN-YouTube debates

(#68452)

In this round, the Democratic candidates will field questions from citizens who are dedicated Republicans or Conservatives. Then the Republican candidates will field questions from citizens who are dedicated Democrats or Progressives. I suspect that these would be the most interesting and lively debates so far and the candidates answers, as long as the questions were fair and not of the "when did you stop beating your wife" variety, would be very enlightening.

The point here is twofold. First, if someone wants to be President, answering questions from people who oppose your politics and your philosophy of government should be part of the job. If you can't formulate a good argument when someone on the other side challenges you, you shouldn't be running for the city council, let alone the nation's top job.

Second, nobody should be running to be President of Republican America or Democratic America. There's only one America. Anyone who aspires to lead us should be comfortable talking to all Americans, right, left and center.

Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.

And exellent idea, particularly if "plants" are excluded

(#68498)

IOW, some genuine effort should go into weeding out campaign plants, who by definition aren't real people.

I would be very interested in seeing a pair of debates like you describe, particularly if they are close in time. People here have something of a tendency to forget that not everyone follows politics as closely, or is as dedicated to whoever they perceive as "their" candidate. Many people I ask don't know who they are going to vote for, meaning they will make up their minds when both parties' candidates are wheeled out onto the stage several months from now. Right now they don't see much point in trying to decide if they will pick Obama over Giuliani but Giuliani over Clinton, for example.

Those are the people these debates supposedly are aimed at educating, enlightening or whatever. And that would happen IMO to a greater degree if at least some debates were done as you suggest.

(Most of us here aren't going to move much even within the party based on what we hear at a debate, and it's very unlikely that anyone will switch from D to R or vice versa.)

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

Maybe it would be more accurate to make the claim

(#68446)

that CNN are guilty of doing the Republican candidates a favor?

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2007/11/dialing_the_republicans.html

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Those graphs, they don't mean what you think they mean.

(#68439)

They mean that the Democratic Party is in the center of the American electorate, while the Republican Party is currently dominated by far-right ideologues.*

Separately, I have a clue about media bias; it's the Eternal Conservative Victimhood Complex which is causing difficulties for others.

*to use the kindest conceivable language.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

I'll just link this here

(#68430)

as a counterpoint to the "do-over" idea, which I consider a bit ridiculous.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

I like that

(#68435)
HankP's picture

"There are no do-overs in politics". There is crying, though, hence this diary.

I blame it all on the Internet

What GOP candidate that can't handle "liberal" questions

(#68432)

is going to be able to handle running the country? Exactly.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Yep

(#68440)

(and thanks Hank.)

The call for a do-over is only a small part of BD's post, so I don't want to make too big a deal out of it, but it seemed worth bashing anyway =)

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

Faux Outrage

(#68427)

~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"

The Outrage Is Real

(#68431)

The issue is Faux.

Please look up the word "plant" and try again. -nt-

(#68425)

.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Yawn.

(#68423)

More pearl clutching from the outrage-o-sphere.

Why did Malkin say this after the debate :

The questions were almost all coherent and well-framed. And no obvious “plants” that I could detect. If you uncover any, let me know.

There you have it. Dem plants ask the questions dippy rightwing bloggers want answered.

Edit : In the interest of comity I'd like to thank you for your substantial diary post to kick off this topic here. I was waiting to see what theforvm thought about this CNN story.

Yeah...

(#68436)

And right after the debate NRO posts this:

I'm getting many e-mails along these lines:

"I was absolutely disgusted with what I saw tonight from CNN. Thousands of people submitted questions for this debate; yet, the questions they chose only served to reinforce the stereotype that the average Republican voter is a confederate-flag-waving, gun-toting, bible-brandishing conspiracy theorist! There were staggeringly few questions on National Security, and the few that were asked include some of the substanceless "gotcha" questions which were designed for no other purpose than to induce gaffes. What bothers me most is that CNN's embarassing performance was not out of malice; they genuinely believe that this is what Republicans are like and that these ridiculous questions are what Republican voters want to hear. A bad night for CNN and for the American media generally."

Make up your minds. Were the questions too right-wing wacko or not right-wing wacko enough?

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

agreed in this sense:

(#68444)
John's picture

I don't care who asks the questions or what the intent or agenda is. What does matter is that questions pass some basic smell test in terms of being fruitful and relevant.

Many of those questions were simply pointless and silly. In choosing many dumb questions. CNN did the debate a real disservice by making much of it about discussing shallow stereotypes and pithy "nothing" issues.

I missed the memo...

(#68421)

...from Gallup on what to think.

I'm a long-time registered Democrat and see persistent media bias from all large media. Pre-war coverage was disgraceful.

I'd describe the media as, in this order:

1. Pro corporate interests
2. Opportunistic
3. Economically conservative
4. Socially liberal

This last point might be what feeds the "liberal bias" meme on the right. But the complete picture is definitely not favorable to a liberal agenda. Quite the opposite.

This was clear enough to Larkin, whose patriotism rested on the notion that England was the worst place on earth with the possible exception of everywhere else.

Too bad you don't put the NYT...

(#68443)
Zelig's picture

...into that same bag you place the rest of the American media into. I agree with your analysis, but confused as to your qualified defense of that corporatist war-mongering rag.

Me: We! -- Ali

Huh?

(#68495)

Where do I defend the NYT?

Believe me, I don't. The NYT's journalistic standards has gone down hill for quite some time now. This is pre-bush, but it became easier to see with bush.

This was clear enough to Larkin, whose patriotism rested on the notion that England was the worst place on earth with the possible exception of everywhere else.

And I missed

(#68426)
HankP's picture

where it's illegitimate for political opponents to ask questions. What a bunch of pvssies. This is the same old "play the refs" strategy.

I think BD is just upset that all the candidates looked pretty bad to a non-Republican audience.

I blame it all on the Internet

Exactly.

(#68429)

Don't bother with the answer to the question, just attack the questioner.

Attack attack attack, and constantly play the victim.