Obligatory Favre discussion area
Because, you know, everyone else is talking about it.
Lemme say upfront that I'm probably a little biased. I'm a Vikings fan and hence am required to detest Green Bay. But the Vikings haven't really been all that easy to support for the past several years, for a variety of reasons, and watching them play the Packers I've developed a healthy respect for Favre's talents. I went to Lambeau a few year back, it was cold as hell but the stadium was packed. Mostly nice fans too, they didn't give us a hard time for having Vikes gear (probably helped that they won the game, which was frankly terrible on the part of both teams). This was potentially one of the "last chance to see Favre in GB" games and everyone figured he was finished.
Then he had a nice year in 2007, the Packers got a decent running game to take some of the pressure off and he made fewer stupid plays trying to press for wins. The GB defense was excellent too. It ended poorly, with a playoff loss to the Super Bowl winners set up by a Favre interception, but arguably the real problem in that game was the complete disappearance of the rushing attack that had leveled Seattle previously. Anyway, Favre rides off into the sunset after an excellent career and Aaron Rodgers prepares to take the reins.
Mr. Rodgers (sorry) looked pretty good substituting for Favre last year (in contrast to previous seasons) and the top brass in GB clearly feels he's ready to step in. They aren't looking for anything spectacular, just solid competence at QB. If he doesn't pan out, they've always got Brian Brohm as insurance. And the division is total crap so it's not like the Packers need to be perfect.
Then... surprise! Favre changes his mind, wants to un-retire. Again. One might say, as usual. Certainly a bit selfish, certainly a bit inconsiderate, and definitely putting the Packers in a tight spot. Still, the goal of a football team is to win, and one would think that 28 TD/15 INT/4155 YDS goes a long way towards making that happen. Add in that Favre knows the offense inside out and has a comfortable rapport with the players and it's tough to see the on-the-field downside to putting him back in. Yes, it might cost you Rodgers... but, no disrespect to him, that's hardly the end of the world. Yes, Favre still has a tendency to go gunslinger in a fashion that can be as costly as it can be exciting... but his stats were actually better in the postseason than in the regular season last year, and with reasonable game management by the coach this is a controllable problem.
Plus, he's a living legend in Green Bay. You can't tell him to leave without losing substantial fan support and money. But apparently the Packers weren't interested in having him back. To say that the situation has not been handled gracefully is a massive understatement. From the (somewhat insulting) attempt to pay him to stay away, to the flip-flops on whether he would even be allowed to compete for the starting job, TT, MM, and the ownership have managed to turn an admittedly tough situation into an epic disaster. Favre probably already got the hint that putting the best possible team on the field was not the top priority for this group when his campaigning for them to obtain Randy Moss went nowhere, so he can't have been completely caught off guard by the cool reception to his return. Still the lack of interest in a clear upgrade to a demonstrated performer is surprising: this isn't Pop Warner, where Rodgers gets "his turn" to play; this isn't the minor leagues, where developing players is more important than winning games; this is the NFL, where winning translates into $$, and this is a team that used to live by the ethos that "winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is." What happened to that competitive spirit?
So, the Packers looked to move on, and Favre looked to move on. The classy thing here would be to grant him his release and let him finish up his career where he wished. The Packers wouldn't even consider that -- they wanted compensation for losing him (even though they didn't want to play him) and they wanted to prevent him going to a division rival. So ok, trade him -- but again the club ruled out Minnesota as a destination. Apparently Favre is just good enough to upgrade the Vikings QB situation but not good enough to compete for the Packer's starting job. I don't think anyone in the Packers organization could actually say that with a straight face, but that's the only way to interpret that move and still believe that the Packers have a goal of being as competitive within their division as possible.
Anyway, it looks like Favre will be traded to Tampa Bay, ending the soap opera. I think it's unlikely that the Packers will have as successful a season as they did last year, and I think they would have done better to accept Favre, but he certainly didn't make it easy on anyone with his indecisiveness and unclear goals. Should make for an interesting subplot to the upcoming season, that's for sure.
Update late Wednesday: ESPN is reporting Favre traded to Jets for draft pick.
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Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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Heard on ESPN radio that the Packers demanded a clause in the trade that would force the Jets to give the Packers *three* first round draft choices if they were to trade Favre to the Vikings. With that kind of penalty clause, the Jets wouldn't do business with the Vikings if they offered the equivalent of L.T. in exchange for Favre.
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)Man, that's just funny as hell.
--Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.
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| parent )From nfl.com:
Schefter also reports that the Packers took great pains to ensure Favre would not be traded to the Vikings -- or any other NFC North team -- by inserting a "poison pill" in the deal. If Favre were to be traded to any team in the Packers' division, the Jets would have to surrender three first-round picks to Green Bay. The trade also includes provisions preventing a trade to another team if that new team were to trade him to the NFC North.
So it's not just the Vikings, apparently. Looks like the Bears aren't going to be de-Grossman'd any time soon.
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| parent )I-N-T-S Jets, Jets Jets!
--~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"
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)I wonder how 'ol Brett will react after he has one of his classic, 4+ INT stinkers and the NY media proceeds to rip him a new one. I can't wait for Mike and The Mad Dog to go all medieval on Favre the Monday after he stinks up the joint.
--Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.
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| parent )that the Jets will quickly have more wins than they had last year, and the media/fans will cut him some slack for the occasional bad game.
But it will certainly be interesting to find out.
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )rips Thompson for moving Favre.
The interesting thing to me in this column was the upbeat assessment of the Jets' chances next year, even in the Patriots' division.
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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). . .but the Jets have about as much chance of getting past the Patriots to the Super Bowl as I do of dating Keira Knightley. For all of Wojciechowski's wailing, hair-ripping (and he can't afford that), and garment rending about the fate of poor old Brett, he doesn't say anything beyond suggesting that the Jets are in a (mostly) weak division and could have a nine win season. Whoopee!
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| parent )No chance in hell.
They are ,essentially, playing for 1 of 2 wild card spots.
If history bears through this year one of those spots is a virtual lock for Jacksonville.
So, making this assumption, a team that was 4-12 last year is vying for a playoff spot (very probably set at a 10-6 record)with possible resurgents Bills and Browns, last years WC Titans, Cutler and the Broncos....
Ain't.....gonn'a...happen.
Who do people think Farve is......The One?
--~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"
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| parent )Favre traded to Jets.
Good luck getting to the Super Bowl from there, old man.
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)have fun tormenting Miami fans twice a year. Speaking of which, about the only thing Favre ever did which I liked was his brief appearance in There's Something About Mary-
What the hell is Brett Favre doing here?
I'm in town to play the Dolphins, you dumbass.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )on the field and in the media as the season goes on and the team's losses pile up.
Jets don't have near the talent GB has and Brett can't do anything to improve that.
I'm not seeing this as Montana in Kansas City.....more like Franco Harris in Seattle......a sad end to a glorious career.
Alas, as far as his legacy goes...it will be fine. No one remembers (outside diehard Steeler fans) Franco as a Seabird and failing. No one remembers Namath as a Ram and failing. And as was pointed out in this talking of Farve, no one remembers Jerry Rice as a Bronco....and....well...you get the picture.
--~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"
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| parent )....tomorrow will tell the final tale. Mr. Farve has the contractual right to say thanks but no thanks to the trade...and retire again.
Also, the draft pick compensation is very oddly structured...I'm not sure the Jet's gave up anything really for Brett Farve.
He may have been essentially free....depending.
I have to read more on this tomorrow.
Best Wishes,
Traveller
Edit: Well, here are the purported terms;
According to the NFL Network, if Favre takes 50 percent of total snaps with the Jets in 2008, the fourth rounder becomes a third-round pick. If he gets 70 percent of the snaps and the Jets make the playoffs, it becomes a second-round pick; and if he gets 80 percent of snaps and the Jets make the Super Bowl, it becomes a first-round pick.
Seems pretty damned cheap to me....as an afterthought, Tampa wouldn't equal this offer?
Hummmmm
Traveller
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| parent )I'm sure he'll have no problem with the NY sports media.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )...so I guess I should comment.
Farve - [shakes head]
GB Mgmt - [shakes head]
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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)But first I'd like to present this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMvCQ6Smknk
Giants Win! Giants Win! Giants Win! Giants Win!
I went to the Giants training camp in Albany this past weekend, hung out with all my online buddies and talked about the win and I still can't believe it.
--Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.
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)Here I sat chuckling, mentally composing my "Thanks for the funny vid" reply.
And then...I clicked on the "Hand Banana" episode in the related videos.
That's the first time a cartoon had me trying to crawl backward over the chair to get away :-0
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )n/t.
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)to Cher in numerous corners of the web and on ESPN already. I imagine it'll get worse before it gets better.
That's gotta sting.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )But then, like the resurrection of the Easter Bunny ... wait... I seem to have my liturgies mixed up here... Brett will arise from his tomb in accordance with the prophecies, and the Lord will grin, and the people shall feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and Sprecher Root Beer as was predicted so long ago by St Curly Lambeau.
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| parent )Yes I'll retire.....no I won't....well......yea, I'll play....I think....well....get back to me...no....I'll get back to you.....after the draft...well........
That pretty much sums up the last 3 off seasons of Farve and the Packers. This is no way to run a team......
Get rid of him now. He's (IIRC) 38. People say GB should just take him back....he's only got a season, maybe 2 left in him...just deal with it.
Steve DeBerg was QBing until 44.
I don't think GB wants to go through this "maybe I will, maybe I won't....I'll let you know after the draft..." BS for possibly the next 5+ years.
Let him go to TB and fail, 'cause that's what he will do in any other system...at least for the next year.
Maybe that will take the spark out of 'em.
I mean, gawd, Farve is acting like a chick! ;-)
Put him out of his misery.
--~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"
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)there is a direct correlation between the joy I feel about this situation and the longer it draws out along with the uglier it gets. Yeah, Favre is a great player and all that, but you can only lose to him so many times before you begin see anything that tears apart Green Bay as a good thing. When it was rumored he was going to the Vikings that was of little conciliation, we'd still lose to him twice a year. If he goes to Tampa that's better, we just play them once this year. If he goes to the AFC even better yet. Objectively looking at the situation there is plenty of blame to put on both sides. The Packers are crazy not to want him, but it reflects rather poor on him to expect the organization (which gave him until March to make up his mind) to scrap what it worked on all spring and summer to make room for his sudden comeback. But I'm not objective and I hope this continues to dominate ESPN for weeks, or even months.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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)before the wheels fell off. I'd say they have as much of a shot at the division as anyone...
Agree on the rest.
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )unless Peterson gets hurt, then it actually would be wide open and whoever wins it gets to look forward to being crushed in the Wild Card round. My brain says it's going to be the Cowboys and Patriots in the Superbowl, but I don't like the Cowboys either so I'll pull for a dark horse like Philly or Seattle. If Peterson stays healthy the Vikings have shot too, but I really don't expect to see a team from either the NFC North or AFC North to make it all the way this year.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )Then you'll really know how bitter disappointment can be.
--Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.
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| parent )If Rodgers' performance against the cowboys last year was more than just a fluke, it's absolutely worth developing him. The packers team is extremely young, especially at WR. Good QBs are hard to come by in the league, look at how many teams are good but would be dominant if they had a QB.. the Bears a couple years ago (now they're unsalvageable), the Chargers if Rivers doesn't maintain his newfound leadership, and there's another 10 teams or so that would go from 'middling' to 'competitive' with a solid QB.
Given the youth of the packers' receiving corps and running backs (is their D young too?), it makes more sense to keep Rodgers on board for 5 good seasons than it does to cling to Brett for one.
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)Potentially good QBs are much more available.
Without insider information, I'd put Rodgers in the latter category. Presumably the Packers feel he's a safe enough bet for success (and that Brohm would take too long to develop and/or not be as good) that they can afford to cut Favre loose.
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )(and I certainly hope the Packers are taking that perspective, since this isn't amateur football), why should they give up an asset to which they have a legitimate contractual claim, without any kind of compensation?
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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)in this case it's not so simple. There's a price paid in terms of fan support (and hence $$) if the team is viewed as thwarting Favre's wishes as well.
With respect to trading him, however, it seems likely that the Packers could have got the most for him from the Vikes, since they need a QB. If the Packers view him as washed up, why would they not trade him, as damaged goods, to Minny?
Seems to me they know he's still plenty good but they have other reasons for not wanting him in GB.
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )I think the waiting list for season tickets in Green Bay extends for decades and not all those fans will side with Favre. There's also television revenue sharing which makes even the lowliest franchises profitable. Then there's the fact that the town owns the team, so who exactly would the fans boycott? So while there may be a temporary dip in merchandise sales I doubt it's anything the organization can't weather.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )of the team president when I said ownership... I knew they were a publicly owned company but didn't realize there was a cap on the total number of shares one person could hold.
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )that some fans have had it with Favre.
Still, he's been the face of the franchise for the last decade. That's tough to change overnight, from a marketing perspective, and if the split is contentious there ought to be some impact. I certainly agree that the organization can weather this just fine, but it might have been able to avoid the worst of the storm by steering a bit differently.
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )there was no way to avoid either him or Rogers being cast out of Green Bay. That the organization went with an unknown quantity rather than the man who took them to one home game away from the Superbowl last year is an absolute mystery, but one I'm happy that exists.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )