I'm On The Front Page!! (Edited For Actual Posting Nutrition!)
Heck. Just thought I'd see if everything is now auto-posting. You're welcome!
EDIT: Given that Senator McCain is making the surge the centerpiece of his foreign policy resume, it would be helpful, heck, it would be refreshing, if he gave some indication that he understood...
What in fact constituted...The Surge.
Details, and they're embarrassing, here.
--
--
--
--
"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Harley's blog
- Login or register to post comments
Conservative
Liberal
Moderate/Mixed/Non-Partisan
Non-Political/Reference
Related Sites -
Polisci Applied (Aaron)
Intrepid Liberal Journal (Intrepid Liberal)
Obsidian Wings (Bird Dog)
Open Hand/Open Eye (locutas)
Red State (Bird Dog)
Swords Crossed (brendanm98)
Wagster Speaks (Wagster)
WatchingAmerica (BlaiseP)
The Social Pathologist (TSP)
Foreign Affairs -
Abu Aardvark
'Aqoul
American Footprints
Council on Foreign Relations
CSIS
Democracy Arsenal
Intel Dump
The Fourth Rail
The Head Heeb
War and Piece
Politics -
Ace of Spades HQ
Andrew Sullivan
Balloon Juice
Belgravia Dispatch
Captain's Quarters
Crooked Timber
Curmudgeonly & Skeptical
Daily Kos
Democracy Arsenal
Eschaton
Firedoglake
Glenn Greenwald
Global Guerrillas
Hugh Hewitt
Instapundit
Jawa Report
Lawyers, Guns and Money
Liberals Against Terror
Matt Yglesias
Michael J. Totten
Michelle Malkin
Moon of Alabama
New America
OxBlog
Patterico
Political Animal
Political Wire
Publius Pundit
QandO
Reality Based Community
Talking Points Memo
The Agitator
The Belmont Club
The Corner
Truman Project
Winds of Change.net
War -
Counterterrorism Blog
Iraq the Model
Jihad Watch
Small Wars Journal Blog
Economics and Business -
Angry Bear
Brad DeLong
Daniel Drezner
Mahalanobis
Marginal Revolution
Roubini Global Economics
The Big Picture
Science and Tech -
Bad Astronomy
New Scientist
Real Climate
Science Blogs
Scientific American
The Panda's Thumb
Legal -
Balkinization
Conglomerate
Ideoblog
Jurisdynamics
Law and Letters
Overlawyered
ProfessorBainbridge
ScotusBlog
Talk Left
The Becker-Posner Blog
Volokh Conspiracy
Sports -
Baseball Crank
Baseball Musings
Baseball Reference.com
ESPN.com
NFL.com
Only Baseball Matters
The Sports Economist
Books, Film and Music -
Amazon.com
Internet Movie Database
All Music Guide
News and Aggregators -
Asia Times
Boingboing
CNN
Digg
English Russia
Fark
Los Angeles Times
Memeorandum
MSNBC
Politico
Poynteronline
Slashdot
The New York Times
The Washington Post
References -
tomsyl and I were discussing Obama and Chicago earlier. Here is a brand new article:
and this:
. . . and it looks as though they’ll punish the monkey and let the organ grinder go . . .
- Login or register to post comments
)Actually, I was impressed by the previous quote about him wanting students in his class to be uncomfortable aabout AA.
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )I'm out of here for the evening. We can resume later ...
Cheers to all!
--. . . and it looks as though they’ll punish the monkey and let the organ grinder go . . .
- Login or register to post comments
)Per CNN:
Eh, there is this:
Colonel McFarland:
Tucker Bounds (yesterday): "If Barack Obama had had his way, the Sheiks who started the Awakening would have been murdered at the hands of al Qaeda,"
Reality: The sheik most responsible for the Awakening was killed by al Qaeda
= = =
Yes, the surge helped, however John McCain's campaign appears very confused on the details of what actually happened.
--. . . and it looks as though they’ll punish the monkey and let the organ grinder go . . .
- Login or register to post comments
)Given McCain's comments re: Obama doesn't this quote from McFarland offer dis-repect to the valor and skill of the US military?
"Only Sattar could have gotten the Awakening movement started"
Wasn't it the surge that caused the Awakening? More revisinary history?
--. . . and it looks as though they’ll punish the monkey and let the organ grinder go . . .
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Is this the best Obamaphiles can come up with?
I see everyone trying to cling to this thin Anbar reed, and it really makes wonder.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )McCain seems to be confused about the order in which -- arguably -- the two most important developments in Iraq occurred. To paraphrase Hilzoy... when you're basing your entire campaign on foreign policy expertise, is the barest acquaintance with foreign policy facts too much to ask for?
--More Wagster!
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )...the answer is 'yes!'
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )It's not that difficult. McCain claimed that A led to B even though it turns out that B happened before A. This is simply wrong, whatever you may think of the pros and cons of the surge. The simple historical fact which McCain appears to ignore is that the surge could not have caused the awakening since it began after it.
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )The inconvenience is sometimes galling, I suppose. Also,
--'Obamaphile' becomes tiresome. Perhaps a new insult.
"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )But, comparing McCain's versus Obama's positions at the time the Anbar Salvation Council was pleading for U.S. support doesn't make sense to me -- if the idea is to actually help Sen. Obama.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )That Anbar Reed is more about McCain making a fairly egregious error about the Surge timeline, betraying either ignorance or, more likely, the politician's sometime desire to take credit for something he does not deserve it for. Then, to make matters worse, he's now basically redefining what The Surge actually is in order to make his previous error less embarrassing. (That he did so in front of a grocery store cheese case is almost poetic.)
This has been a terrible couple days for McCain as a result. And it has nothing to do with comparing positions, tho' at least Senator Obama was accurate in describing when the Awakening occurred.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )I can see it is rather futile to point out why this is a 'win the battle, lose the war' proposition, so carry on.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )It's actually rather simple politics. It may not be fair. But it's the way things work. McCain has made the Surge the centerpiece of his political campaign. He made a public statement suggesting he doesn't know the time-line of the event itself, then spent the next day trying to re-define the Surge so that it might better fit his previous misstatement. In other words, he's spent the last 48 hours sounding and acting like GW Bush.
That is the war, friend. And it's one, unlike the Surge itself, that McCain is losing. Hence the anger and vitriol that spewed from both the candidate and his campaign surrogates today. Hence the cancelled press avails. Nobody likes to ride a sinking ship.
And coming on the heels of the Maliki endorsement, not to mention Obama's fairly seamless overseas trip (thus far), it makes for an absolutely terrible week for the McCain campaign.
That doesn't mean he's going to lose the general election. It just means his campaign is in some trouble at the moment. I would suggest the latter statement comes as close to objective truth as you'll get in this process.
McCainiacs may disagree, of course.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Obama?
if so, at least you recognize that McCain made a mistake on this.
But why do you say Obama is 'losing the war' on the Iraq debate? I see no evidence of that.
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )I'm sure you can make it.
Where is the evidence that Obama is losing the war on the Iraq debate? The polls and the press indicate quite the opposite. Heck, Max Boot is forced to write articles explaining how he knows better than Maliki what Iraq needs most. Obama has managed to get the Iraqui govt as well as the US govt to agree with his timeline proposal. The only one left out is McCain.
If you think Obama is losing this war what are you basing it on?
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )is from conservatives in respect to the almighty 'Surge' which apparently swept all before it.
Awakening, ethnic cleansing of Baghdad, Sadr cease fire and 'the Surge' (mainly bribing the Sunni not to shoot and the erection of a forest of concrete barriers in Baghdad), in that order. Check with Maliki.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )On his trip he's arepeatedly praised the work of the US military and credited the soldiers with the success of the surge. (I read about it in The Sun.) He's there and you're not, so I'm going with him on this unless you tell me he's fibbing just to get votes.
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )is going to miss an opportunity to praise the effort of US troops in Iraq, goes without saying.
As to the almighty surge, I believe Obama has stated he considers that 'the Surge' was a contributing factor to the current reduction in violence. Then again, depends what you mean by 'the Surge'. McCain's definition would encompass every positive development that has occurred in Iraq post the bombing of the Golden Mosque.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Hilzoy has a great post on this:
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/07/the-surge-cause.ht...
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )simply were not the sole or even a key proximate cause of the success in Anbar.
The Awakening very likely would have happened with 120,000 US troops or 150,000 US troops in Iraq.
--. . . and it looks as though they’ll punish the monkey and let the organ grinder go . . .
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Let's examine McCain's words.
"Colonel McFarlane [phonetic] was contacted by one of the major Sunni sheiks." A true statement, more or less.
"Because of the surge we were able to go out and protect that sheik and others." Also a true statement, assuming McCain was talking about the strategy that went with the increase in troops. The principles underlying the Anbar awakening are counterinsurgency principles.
"And it began the Anbar awakening. I mean, that's just a matter of history." In broader terms, McCain is right. Colonel MacFarland wrote about the history here. As late as November 2006, the situation was assessed as a lost cause. MacFarland & Co. started their own COIN strategy ahead of the Petraeus schedule, so the strategy that Petraeus implemented nationwide some months later gets the credit. The movement was birthed in September 2006, but it would've been SIDS without applying the proper strategy to make it work.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
)the Awakening, without 'the Surge', how so?
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )It took that many more Marines after the beginning of the new strategy to help secure the area (this link provides both the 4,000-troop link and Wesley Clark ridiculously talking down the strategy). The tribal leaders wouldn't have committed to the strategy without getting some commitments in return. The Battle of Sufia in late November 2006 proved pivotal and the tribes started joining en masse after that engagement.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )would it have taken if the Sunni hadn't decided to co-operate?
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )...avoid hypotheticals as much as possible, but I'll throw one back at you: How many Sunnis would have joined the Awakenings if a counterinsurgency strategy hadn't been employed in the first place?
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )that involves co-opting and buying off former adversaries involve deploying more troops?
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )nt
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )In broader terms, McCain is not right. He is wrong. The surge came AFTER the Anbar awakening and so it could not have caused it, as he claims ("And it began the Anbar awakening").
Let's leave the politician's lies out of the debate, if possible. Or is McCain simply 'confused'?
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )The strategy used by Col. MacFarland was a counterinsurgency strategy. The surge was more than just an increase in troops. It encompassed a new way of doing things, which required a greater number of troops to get the job done. What you're trying to do is limit "surge" to just an increase in troop levels. It was much, much more than that.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Please, leave the spin for the politicians. You are trying to redefine the surge so that it includes a period of time that was, up to now, never part of it. Pretty soon you will be arguing that the surge predated the war itself. If McCain tried the same line of arguments people would suspect he was senile.
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )You are playing up the personnel move and denying the strategy that McCain had endorsed since Nov-2003. I don't deny that Anbar started ahead of Petraeus, but the strategy was all of a piece. As the term has been used, "surge" and "surge strategy" and "COIN strategy" have been used interchangeably to mean the same thing.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Wouldn't be easier, on all of us, if you simply admitted that McCain misspoke re the Surge time-line regarding the Awakening -- an error that in no way undercuts his prescient support for the Surge itself.
I understand why McCain has to say this kind of stuff. Steve Schmidt tells him to. But I can't imagine why you'd do the same.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )As to the timing of what started first, he did, and I don't deny that. But as to the strategy employed, which really should be the larger issue, McCain is accurate in making the point that Obama is denying that the surge strategy has contributed to the improvements in Iraq.
Here's what bothers me, Harley. Obama was downtalking the Petraeus strategy, and one of the reasons Obama gave was that the Awakening movement started first, implying that the Petraeus strategy had nothing to do with said movement, as if the Awakenings and the surge strategy operated on separate and independent tracks. It's a false and misleading notion that Obama was trotting out. The Petraeus strategy is the Anbar strategy is the Awakening strategy. McCain has been right for over four years that this was the course we should've been taking.
The plan that incented the sheiks to join in Anbar is virtually the same as what Petraeus implemented country-wide. Obama seemed agreeable to how the Awakening movement proceeded, which brings him to this obvious contradiction: If Obama approves of the Awakenings (and it sure looks like he does), then he must also be approving of the counterinsurgency strategy that birthed and grew it. Yet, Obama has outright rejected the same strategy when it was applied to a larger area of operations.
And here's another contradiction. Obama outright rejected the troop increase AND strategy in Iraq, yet he favors a troop increase in Afghanistan and has said nothing about those troops would do when they get to Karzai country. If he proposes a proper COIN strategy, then he would look like a hypocrite, so I have serious doubts that he would recommend such a plan. For Obama, COIN is the strategy that must not be named. Or credited. For obviously political reasons.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )I think AQ should properly get the credit for that.
Imagine how things might look from the Sunni insurgent perspective. They had a choice,
{a}continue the alignment with AQ against the Shia central government and USA forces and be destroyed from within as likely as from without, or
(b)shift allegiance and align with US forces against AQ wherein US forces would protect them from the Shia central government.
(c)fight all 3 and lose.
They chose us, good choice.
Show me where Obama explicitly rejected any proposed change in tactics by US forces intended to reduce the levels of violence in Iraq. He along with most Democrats, opposed an increase in troop numbers plain and simple not any change in doctrine, tactics or strategy.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )So I guess you didn't click the MacFarland link. Disappointing. There were Sunni sheiks who were sick and tired of al Qaeda, but they didn't have the means or know-how or training or ability to protect themselves from al Qaeda's killing and intimidation tactics. For quite a while, they didn't join us, but MacFarland and his plan showed the way. The Battle of Sufia was the tipping point.
Show me where Obama explicitly rejected any proposed change in tactics by US forces intended to reduce the levels of violence in Iraq.
Sparti, his own bill is a direct and complete rejection of the strategy. You're trying to have it both ways. Obama never once endorsed the COIN strategy, and the increase in troops is part-and-parcel of that overall change. The change was an escalation in kinetic activity and he opposed any sort of escalation. The very title of his bill was the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Jan. 2007 Bush announces surge in troop strength, US troop level in Iraq at the time 130,000 troops.
Mar. 2007 150,000 US troops in Iraq
June 2007 The U.S. military reports that 28,000 troops required for the surge have arrived in Iraq and that the surge operations can now commence.
It is not a matter of "history" that the surge "began" the Anbar Awakening. That's the point, John McCain was wrong.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )You appear to be auditioning for a position in McCain's spin apparatus. Anbar began before the surge. Period. If you want to do an historical analysis of the origins of the surge, by all means write a diary. I'm sure it will be interesting.
But what McCain said is simply wrong. The surge has a start date and it is AFTER the Anbar awakening. I admire your ability to come up with incredibly inventive rationalizations but they don't work.
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )not associated with increased troop levels.
His point is that changing strategy, talking to the Anbar chiefs, having a better local feel (as McFarland advocates) didn't necessarily need more US troops in Baghdad.
And since the troop surge was primarily in Baghdad not Anbar, how could more troops be the cause of the Anbar Awakening?
--. . . and it looks as though they’ll punish the monkey and let the organ grinder go . . .
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )The contortions required to write that would be worthy of an Olympic gymnast. Given the way McCain is going though you'll be doing a lot more of it over the course of the next few months.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )I voted Harley up on the specific representation that he would say nothing of substance in his diary. He gladly took my vote, then turned around and edited the diary to add something on McCain the moment I turned my back. We're supposed to playing at politics here, not actually practicing it. I want my money back.
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
)containing your full dues for the year, but it's been prorated since you really should have known better than to trust one of them Hollywood types. As to your diary vote, well, you'll just have to be more careful next time.
--I blame it all on the Internet
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )McCain is bangin' that 'Surge' drum for all its worth and unfortunately it seems to have taken root as accepted wisdom in the news media's low information voter based narrative of events.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
)It was Aug 2007 when al Sadr called a ceasefire, right after the Karbala unpleasantness. It was Feb 2007 when al Sard ordered his militias to end execution-style killings. What triggered the spate of killings by his squads in the first place was the Golden Mosque bombing, which happened in Feb 2006. The surge began in Feb 2007, not March. I can't believe Drum is this bad on basic facts. The Anbar Awakening did begin in Aug 2006, so one out of four isn't bad, no?
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Specifically, my bad for quoting Drum's bad without checking.
As far as the effectiveness of 'the Surge' goes. I think you need to split out the change in tactics which began a little earlier and preceded Petraeus. From the increase in troop numbers, which began slowly and wasn't up to effective strength allowing operations for which they were earmarked to commence, until much later in June 2007.
On the significance of 'the Surge', I think the jury is still out. Would Iraq have spiraled out of control without 'the Surge'? did 'the Surge' play significantly more of a role than supporting and consolidating developments taking place independent of 'the Surge'? (Sunni Awakening, Sadr ceasefire, ethnic cleansing in Baghdad)
My guess not surprisingly is that Obama perhaps undersells 'the Surge' while McCain oversells it, each for their own political reasons. So it's likely the truth lies somewhere in between with 'the Surge' deserving partial credit for the current reduction in violence and most of that going to the change in tactics than the relatively small increase in troop numbers. As a final thought, what credit does al Maliki give 'the Surge?
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )I'll link it again. In MacFarland's own words, he employed a counterinsurgency strategy in Ramadi that was extraordinarily similar to the one Petraeus implemented half a year later, and the Petraeus plan dovetailed with the work done by our Marines in Anbar.
The problem wasn't that COIN tactics weren't being employed prior to Feb 2007. They were, but mostly by Marines who incorporated small wars doctrine into their training, and it was only done piecemeal and without any overarching coordination. The Army didn't have that culture or training, so it was a big deal that an Army general made this change and made it countrywide.
The Petraeus strategy didn't commence in June 2007, it started four months earlier when he ordered soldiers out of FOBs and into COPs. We didn't reach full manpower until June 2007.
As a final thought, what credit does al Maliki give 'the Surge?
He didn't mention it directly in der Spiegel, but he should've.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Doesn't credit 'the Surge':
I would be more generous and allow at least partial credit to the change in tactics by US forces and to the increase in US troop numbers, mainly in Baghdad, collectively know as 'the Surge strategy'. But 'the Surge' is not the only reason and certainly not the primary reason why both Obama and the Iraqi government are largely in agreement on the prospect of withdrawal and able to say to Bush-McCain, "thanks but we can take it from here".
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Imagine if he got the ABC/George & Charlie debate treatment that they gave Obama in Pennsylvania. Now *that's* entertainment.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Now it's official:
Americablog has the video link.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )According to Keith Olberman on Countdown, CBS edited out one of McCain's statements in the interview they aired. The statement?
The whopper about the Anbar Awakening. Damn you librul media!
Here.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )So CBS left in Couric's entire question to McCain, and McCain used it to to say Obama doesn't know what he's talking about -- but they edited out the portion of his reply that suggested he was either confused or lying. Or simply doesn't know the timeline himself.
How did they bust CBS? By reading the transcript of the interview, as posted on the CBS news site.
Heh.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )I heard they'll publish anything McCain writes, but refuse to let Obama respond unless he agrees to do so on Pinchie Sulzburger's terms. Damned conservative media.
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )And while I don't support the NY Times decision, I'm not surprised that while Obama wrote an op-ed outlining a policy position, McCain submitted an op-ed attacking Obama.
And one could, just for the record, argue that Punch was applying a kind of equal time formula. But no matter how you cut it, the McCain campaign just gets worse and worser. There's no center, no core belief, nothing. Except their growing frustration, and soon outright anger*, at the politician who continues to elude them. He's the bamboozler!!
(This, btw, is exactly what happened to the Clinton campaign.)
*Actually, McCain's new and oft-repeated catch phrase about Obama wanting to lose a war in order to win an election takes us to anger already. Accusing someone of sedition? Heck. It's the Straight Talk Express!
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )outline a policy position. A conclusion you wouldn't even be able to state if Drudge hadn't published the draft. You certainly didn't learn that from the NYT.
You want to turn this into a discussion of the shortcomings of McCain and his campaign, not getting that it's not remotely about that. But I am interested in your ""Equal Time" argument. I've never heard of that being applied in a manner that lets the broadcasting company dictate what the candidate being given equal time says. Have you?
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )You said that wasn't relevant to your point. Looks like Harley is giving you another chance to post McCain's Op-Ed and interleave your annotations and opinions.
And again, I assert that if we remove attacks on Obama there is nothing left to McCain's words except platitudes and cliche' (USA! USA! USA!)
--. . . and it looks as though they’ll punish the monkey and let the organ grinder go . . .
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )wanted to say. I've posted a link to the copy the NYT rejected; you and others apparently have concluded that it's not worthy of publication. You should have been reading it in the NYT, not as a poorly typeset "exclusive" on Drudge. To me this point is so obvious that I'm tired of arguing over it. If someone had proof that Obama's submission was rejected with instructions to change it, revised, resubmitted for approval by Shipley and only then published, I would consider that equally wrong. But if you think the Times has the right to tell McCain what to say in response to an op-ed they've printed by his opponent, you and I have very different views of the role and responsibility of the press in this country.
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )But a growing portion of the public seems to disagree.
--- Login or register to post comments
| parent )I disagree with the NY Times decision. But given that McCain's opponents have been complaining about the favorable press he's received for years, it's sorta rich to see that complain come from his camp. But hey, everybody works the refs. It may be hypocritical, but it's hardly unexpected.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )If half of the voters surveyed think the press is trying to elect Obama, you might have a bit of a problem. Particularly since some polls find that less than one person in five believes that journalists generally tell the truth, and a recent poll shows only one in four trusts the media to report on the economy accurately.
John Kerry probably has helpful pointers for Obama on how to use the press to get elected.
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )this exchange of comments is really eerie. Was that an open ended bet, or is there a time limit?
--I blame it all on the Internet
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Harley is an award-winning professional writer who is very capable of using language precisely without resorting to insults when motivated to do so.
Me? I'm just really, really stubborn. Ask Steve Peterson about that.
Still, it would have been sheer folly to start this bet without a last-ditch end date.
--- Login or register to post comments
| parent )If you stick to your guns when a woman's affections are at stake then you can earn the stubborn title.
But if you've watched cooking shows when called upon, then you're just cranky with guys. There's a diff.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent ). . .it ends when the Olympics begin--I have some things to say about the gentlemen in Beijing that would definitely violate the terms of the bet if it was still operative.
--- Login or register to post comments
| parent )laying out the McCain vision on policy rather than an attack piece on Obama, then he might have better luck. "Get off my lawn" is more suited to the Simpsons than the editorial page of the NYT, but I'm sure the Sun would print it.
John McCain told Katie Couric that the surge caused the Anbar Awakening.
Just show me one example of Obama getting away with stuff like this on a major news network, put your sleuthing skills to work and find me just one.
McCain's Surge of Time Travel
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Link.
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )"Fair and balanced"
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )you motivated me to actually figure out what the problem was while waiting for my wife to get home. You're going to actually have to write something worthwhile to see the front page again, Harley.
--I blame it all on the Internet
- Login or register to post comments
)Let the voters decide!! (You in town August 7th?)
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )That would be Thursday, just let me know where and when. I'll shoot BD an email and see if he can make it too.
--I blame it all on the Internet
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )nt
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
- Login or register to post comments
| parent )in the Holy Grail. Only a bit, though - don't get excited.
--Rust never sleeps.
- Login or register to post comments
)“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
- Login or register to post comments
)