The Year Santa Slept In
This morning, a full week before Thanksgiving, I caught a glimpse of Tony Bennett on the 'Today Show' singing a Christmas carol. It felt oddly jarring. But it was a supraliminal reminder that I'd seen Christmas decorations in stores and Christmas lights on streets ever since Halloween was over, sure signs of retailers' desperation. This holiday season, from everything I've heard and read, is shaping up to be the worst for the retail economy in modern history.
And I'm just as guilty as anyone. Long before the stock market started crashing in mid-September, my wife and I, buffeted by a series of financial reverses, health problems, and other out-of-pocket expenses, had decided to "cancel Christmas" this year and just hibernate for a week. We have no kids, and most of our friends and family are either A. dead, B. no longer speaking to us, or C. live far away--so the decision wasn't a difficult one. But sad, nonetheless. We'll maybe send off a few cards, buy a "table-top" tree, and decorate the apartment. I expect a few last-minute book orders from Amazon, and probably some ill-fitting LSU or Steelers jersey or statuette (the girl can't help herself), but that's likely to be it. And that saddens me. Lonely as quite a few of these holiday seasons have been for us for the past decade, there were always parties and surprises and handmade gifts and the last-minute dash to the Fed-Ex office to mail presents. Or the last-minute car rental and drive up the turnpike. This year will be the first when we feel really geriatric, not to mention Scrooge-ish. Even downright unpatriotic.
I have the feeling, though, that we're not going to be alone. I'd like to hear about the plans of everyone else here. Business as usual? Or hunkering down?
What's in your wallet?
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References -
Christmas remains much the same, no big ticket items,
still late writing the cards, two weeks off that just
disappears in family duty, too much to eat and drink
and the enevitable promise that we wont do it again
next year.
However it works, the Sun starts to come back and
the nights get shorter... so all that consumerism
appeases the Gods and the world is saved for another
year, is good times, I love it.
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)...strongly with video games. :^) I mean that in a good way. I can recall my brother and I wasting the days after Christmas on Asteroids and a bunch of the first Activision games when we got our Atari 2600.
Later on, there'd be marathon sessions of Ghengis Khan and the like, see-saw battles across Eurasia or races for colonies in the New World. Good times....
--The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
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)The holiday will always be associated with Lego sets for me. I remember getting the big spaceship as being one of the best Christmas presents ever, and this set also figures prominently in my memory. I must have dozens of sets and I still have them all. My sister gave me a little set each year well into my late 20's out of tradition.
-----
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.
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| parent )got that spaceship set as a present way back when! So excellent that you could put a lego guy INSIDE it, then CLOSE IT UP! And he could SEE OUT while FLYING AROUND!
!!!!!!!!
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| parent )....to the Federation Clone Army troop transporter we got her.
--The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
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| parent )you see kierk, you can't cancel xmas b/c the holiday is about what's in all of our grinch and Who hearts, not presents, boxes and tags.
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)The Christ child is lost in all the tinsel and toys. I don't begrudge people a bit of Christmas cheer, but it's really a borrowed holiday we got from the Saxons, Yule, a bit of fun and frolicking the Victorians dressed up and made into some glib expression of winter merriment. More people die around this period of the year than any other.
The poets always say it best, Yeats, the Magi
Tell you what, folks. We Christians will give you Christmas entirely, let Santa Claus be the patron saint of greed, let the Grinch and Whoville sing do-re-do-mu and Jimmy Stewart shed his maudlin silicone tears until the world ends amen. Just give us back Easter and stay the hell out of the rest of our holy days.
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| parent )If you don't already own the disk, get a copy of the Chieftain's The Bells of Dublin and listen to The Rebel Jesus:
For whatever reason, that song makes me feel better when the crass commercialization of Christmas starts getting to me.
May you find some small measure of peace and joy in the upcoming Christmas season.
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| parent )Especially of communal festivals, and I include sporting events, public services etc in this.
Some time ago vinteuil was mourning the steady decline of the BBC - a result of commercialisation.
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| parent )to begin with, the Church co-opted it to their own ends when they needed to make converts of the Saxons and had no parallel holiday of their own. The Christmas tree, the holly, especially the holly, the ivy, the mistletoe, the wreaths and Christmas logs, all pagan things. Oliver Cromwell knew all this and forbade the celebration of Christmas calling it "the pagan man's feasting day"
I have no quarrel with the pagans, we Christians had our own human sacrifice, if only one. Again, the poets say it best, Seamus Heaney: The Tollund Man
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| parent )We got something from the pagans: if the ancient Yule holiday represented the return of light, it fits nicely with the image of Christ as the light of the world...
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| parent )It was not the light of the world they sacrificed to, but to Odin, chief of the Aesir, the lord of death and wisdom, who had sacrificed one of his own eyes that the other could see all things.
The child born at Bethlehem was born far from home, probably in late summer, for the shepherds were tending their flocks by night. He was probably not born in a manger, but in a home little changed from the Bronze Age, where the animals were kept below and the people slept above. The manger and swaddling clothes would have been the most sanitary place they had to lay him.
His birth was never celebrated until after Constantine, when the Christians needed a holiday to counter the Natus Sol Invicti, the birthday of the Sun, which was celebrated on 25 December. Origen says it was all foolishness, such celebrations were just excuses for a party.
And he was born to die, as humbly as he had entered the world, he left it. He never owned a stick of furniture, never owned a home. Foxes have holes and the birds their nests, but the Son of Man hath no place to lay his head. He was just another in a long string of Judean prophets who claimed to be the Messiah, and like them, he was punished for his impious insolence and died on a cross.
If across the years, we see something transcendent in his birth, only the Magi saw it for what it was, and we do not know how far they came, nor yet what star guided them. It is all a collection of contradictory stories, I do not ask you to believe any of them. For me, Christmas was always the Magi, who came from afar, seeking the King of the Jews. And it would be that phrase which Pilate wrote over his cross.
Eliot says of the Magi:
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| parent )I think my ignorance was bliss... :)
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| parent )My old man said I missed my calling, I should have been a preacher or a theologian. I don't agree, for one, I've never felt my religion implied others couldn't reach equally irrational conclusions. And it's a hard religion to defend, so full of contradictions which we Christians roll up into nice little balls, wrap them up in gilt foil and call them Mysteries.
I remember several Christmases ago, standing in the dark at the window in a hotel room with my cat Caramel, who'd just received her Christmas present, a can of Friskies tuna. The snow was falling quietly.
My wife and kids were gone to Guatemala, there was no point in going home and I couldn't get enough time off from the gig to fly down there for the holidays. The system had to be finished before the New Year. Never liked Guatemalan Christmas anyway, the dreadful sweet tamales, the fireworks, the parades. It's cold and dry up there in the mountains, though a lot of fog blows in, clouds going up the slopes. Given half a chance, I'd go down to the Pacific coast, where it's warm, but it's all about her family down there, the endless parade of relatives. My kids hate going, and someone always gets sick. Our big holiday is Easter.
But there in that hotel room, just me and the cat, I did have a sense of Christmas. Through the loneliness, I knew I had a purring cat in my arms, a good bottle of wine on the counter, and the remnants of the little Christmas party I'd thrown for my friend Peter who lived just down the road in O'Fallon earlier that evening, for I did have a fridge and a stove and an oven and a table and chairs and a little recorder, on which we'd played a few bits of Pepusch and Telemann triosonatas, the little MIDI interface playing the harpsichord bits I'd created for Peter a decade before, the sheet music propped up on the screen of my laptop. I'd had my Christmas party. And I had a working cell phone in my pocket, a good webcam, on which I'd say hello to everyone the next day.
And it wasn't so bad, really. Just me and the kitty, and the falling snow and the endless white noise of the cars and trucks going east on I-70. In St. Peters Missouri, a long way from home.
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| parent )I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )and have for yrs. I hate the music, the shopping and having to navigate through inlaws + step parents.
I'm perfectly happy to leave the holiday alone and have for yrs, tho a sick momma means I'll be in the thick of it this time around.
In future mebbe we should commiserate and have an anti-Holiday together.
We could sit around a fire, maybe roast some chestnuts and even get each other some nice gifts if you like.
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| parent )As if normal candy isn't cloying enough, we manufacture tons of even lower-grade crap just for this one holiday. And then we're supposed to dress up in scary and/or clever costumes while I have a hard enough time pretending not to be a neurotic loon throughout the rest of the year.
I also hate Easter, though it's nice to forgo the costumes. Fourth of July, meh. Fake artillery doesn't make me feel patriotic.
I love T-day and Christmas though. Food holidays. Good food. Food people actually put effort & thought into. In Europe it's even better, because they skip the whole rustic pretense of simple food. Christmas in France, Spain & Italy is caviar, truffles, fish & exotic pasta, smoked oysters, crazy-ass pastries. Food holidays.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )here in Seattle, it's the only holiday that has a high probability of being a nice, warm sunny day. We don't get enough of those.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Great meal w. friends + fam is all that's required for a good holiday IMO.
xmas is a wee bit more than that where I'm from.
Halloween? Obviously you're not single. It's easier to have sexy fun than NYears.
This year unfortunately I worked the door at a club as a favor to a friend and got to bounce a lot of drunk + high people who were bigger than me.
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| parent )Thats what makes the real difference, always.
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| parent )which is probably very modest compared to most people. My wife and I have always been pretty minimalist when it comes to presents, and aside from her early childhood when she'd get inundated with gifts from grandparents, aunts and uncles my daughter is pretty restrained also. We've always been the type to ask for and give one quality gift rather than tons of little ones, and my wife and I have never been the type to accumulate a lot of "stuff" if we can help it (with a few exceptions, I have a weakness for books and music, my wife has a weakness for books and cooking and my daughter has a weakness for books and art).
So we'll still do the tree, I'll cut some cedar and pine boughs from the yard, and we'll spend all day cooking a fancy meal. Our family fits your three criteria so we'll make a bunch of long distance phone calls and visit with friends during the week. But Christmas for us is mostly a day where the family can relax and spend a day together.
I have to say that I see some really ugly times ahead. Everything I've been hearing from family, friends and clients indicate that everyone is being very cautious about expenditures and credit, and that looks like it's going to really slash consumer and business spending in the coming year. I'm fortunate in that my business is already the low cost option for smaller businesses, but I'm hearing of not just freezes on salaries but actual pay cuts, my wife is getting applications that have people begging for jobs at half their previous salary, it just looks ugly everywhere I look. Stuff like this is pretty scary, and doesn't give me any confidence that things will get better anytime soon.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)I'm doing fine. But who the heck knows what'll happen this coming year? I'm in advertising at an agency that's doing really well - as of now. My wife's business has slowed down to the point she had to lay off both her employees.
So we'll cut back. Though we never really go crazy with the holidays in any case. Very luckily, we got offered free lodging in Cabo in January. So we'll be there for a week. I've got a bunch of frequent flyer miles, and tickets actually aren't as much as I would have guessed.
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)Enjoy CSL, and hope there are no AGW-induced storms while you're there. IIRC they make small but potent unblended margaritas using premium tequila and a liqueur made from "bitter oranges", which I've never been able to find outside of Mexico. Tastes a little like Mandarine Napoleon but without the cloying sweetness. Just tell the bartender Bubba sent you.
--Even a dead midget is far from light. - Confucius
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| parent )I've been to many different places in Mexico, but never Cabo. Honestly, I've heard it's pretty cheesy. Doesn't sound like a place I'd seek out. But if it's free it starts looking really good. Especially in January.
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| parent )Actually, I only made it that far down Baja once (we usually drove), and yeah it is, ah, a little on the cheap Vegas-y side, but the water's beautiful and so are the beaches, the Sea of Cortez is a different color, we saw whales and dolphins, and those margaritas were good. Plus, there were Cuban cigars for sale (at least that's what the wrappers said).
--Even a dead midget is far from light. - Confucius
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| parent )Where we're staying isn't smack-dab in the middle of the Planet Hollywoods and Señor Frog's at least.
I'll be half-drunk and half-sunburned the whole time, so I'll just have to deal with it.
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| parent )Did you see any of the giant man-eating squids?
--The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
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| parent )Hollywood is basically imploding, and no one seems to know exactly what's going to happen next. On a less theoretical level, studios are doing what was practically unthinkable just a few years ago. Cutting quotes in ways large and small. And as always, they're starting with the writers.
So. If you are used to getting 10 apples for writing a screenplay? Chances are they're offering 6.
Tess won't hardly notice. On the other hand, the Lovely Deanna has banned Christmas presents for the adults in the house. (There is some continuing debate, however, as to whether or not I qualify as an adult.)
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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)We're still telling ourselves, over here on the huckster side of TV land, that people give up on big ticket items, vacations, real estate flips & learjets but cling to their movies & TV shows. In bitterness, no doubt.
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1853769,00.html
Is that no longer the case?
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )I used to be a great fan of Christmas, used to give big Xmas parties, usually two, one for everyone and a smaller, more intimate one for perhaps two other couples. I'd round up a few music students from Judson who were staying over, have a little Christmas concert for the larger party.
One of my daughters is in Germany, in the USAF. My other daughter is in Finland with her husband. My son is in California, with his girlfriend and her family. My wife's taking care of her father. Won't go into all that, let's just say it's a very quiet house now, just me and the cats.
I'll go to church, but since my kids have left, Christmas just too painful, and a bit pointless.
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)recently widowed as I mentioned on the other subthread. It'll be a somber holiday for my wife's family, though we are blowing some cash anyway by giving it to the airlines. Probably exchange some clothes & stuff too.
I myself don't recommend "canceling" holidays. It's pretty much guaranteed you'll wish you could get the day back, if only to bake a cake or watch It's A Wonderful Life again or whatever it is you do. And being alone sucks. I mention this only so you guys have time to think it over and reconsider. :)
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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)My wife is currently scouring catalogs and web sites for the cutest, more over the top Christmas dress that will fit on a 2-3 month old (baby was born Oct 1).
We may skip the tree this year, for logistical reasons. Baby stuff has taken over the apartment and I don't know where I'd fit a tree. That may be a hard thing to sell the wife, given her love of Christmas.
I'm going to make a serious effort to dial back on gifts this year. My wife really likes to go crazy with gifts, especially for her nieces, nephews and children of her friends.
--Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.
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)just over a year ago? Big congrats, and good luck with the upside-down tree. :)
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )Hitched in June of '07. New baby in Oct of '08. Neither one of us are spring chickens, so it didn't make much sense to wait.
It's been fun so far, albeit exhausting. I did this 16 years ago with the first Mrs. Chuch. Somehow, the lack of sleep doesn't hit you so hard when you're 25.
I'm going to be signing up for that Starbucks Gold Card.
--Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.
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| parent )maybe you shouldn't let her know shes referred to as Mrs Chuch in your alternate universe...
Beautiful baby btw and congratulations!
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| parent )The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
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| parent )
--Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.
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| parent )Must be nice to get your gift early...:)
--Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and your
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| parent )..truly, congratulations.
How could this not be an utterly Fabulous Christmas for you?!?
Best Wishes, Traveller
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| parent )There's got to be 100's of pix on the web. If done properly, it looks stunning. Hangs from the ceiling upside down.
add:![]()
http://www.luxuryhousingtrends.com/upside-down-corner-christmas-tree.jpg
--Me: We! -- Ali
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| parent )That is truly weird. Novel, interesting, even clever, but weird. The presents go where, exactly?
--Even a dead midget is far from light. - Confucius
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| parent )But the missus likes live trees. That probably wouldn't satisfy her.
--Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.
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| parent )to Chicago for a January 1 hockey game at Wrigley Field. I already have the hotel room reserved however, we'll need to score tickets (which is not going to be easy) and my mom has been diagnosed with bladder cancer. She starts chemo on Monday and will have her bladder removed in a few weeks, so it looks like ever if we get tickets we'll have to cancel the trip and tend to my mom instead. Such is life. But good news Kierk, I have a business trip to DC in the beginning of February and I'll swing by your place to unload you of one of your handmade gifts if you like.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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)nt
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| parent )for the concern.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )FWIW, my mother had the same operation some time back and it worked out insofar as the cancer. She passed on later, but from another cause entirely.
--The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
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| parent )able to go places afterward? Apart from the disease itself her biggest concern is being cooped up at home should she beat it.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )She was still hitting the opera in NYC on and off when some other health issues caught up with her. I think she could have been a great deal more mobile, but she got very depressed about the whole situation. That was more debilitating than the catheter. I'd suggest, after surgery, that you guys push her as much as possible into remaining active.
--The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
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| parent )There are no plans to tear down Wrigley Field that I've heard of, so it will still be there next year, and hopefully your mom will recover and pack you guys lunch.
Best wishes and take care in your trials and tribulations. I wish the best of good fortune for you and for your family.
--Even a dead midget is far from light. - Confucius
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| parent )She would go with us if it was in the summer, she loves Wrigley. But the preference for her next trip is Foxborough, Mass, she has this crush on Tom Brady. I'll get her there next fall if things go well.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )she'll be extra-motivated to get past it all and come off chemo quickly just so she can get her hands around your neck for talkin' about her to a bunch of good-for-nothings like us.
My best wishes for a speedy recovery.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )I use a pseudonym. Thank you.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )and all of you.
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| parent )and returns to your family as well.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )My father-in-law passed away 2 months ago (lung cancer), and my wife's been just devastated. Problem is, nobody caught it until it was Stage IV & way beyond the help of surgery or chemo. (He was asymptomatic with zero risk factors, nonsmoker, etc., so it was a complete surprise, and the cancer was fast, fast.)
Catching it at a treatable stage is a much, much better idea. Look after each other, and know that she has well-wishers all over the country here.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )she was bleeding around Mothers day and it was diagnosed as a urinary tract infection. After a summer of antibiotics didn't work she went for another opinion and that's when they caught the cancer. They aren't really sure with how far it's spread, but it hasn't shown up anywhere else yet.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )It must be a little alarming to have waited so long after symptoms began, but looking over the literature it seems like there are plenty of treatment options and good prognoses, even at relatively advanced stages. Having seen it up close and personal, I hate the disease and everything about it (whether that's a rational attitude or not) and feel for anyone who has to deal with it.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )my folks just switched to another one yesterday. On the advice of the doctor the plan is now to undergo 3 months of chemo then have the surgery, they seem to have higher rates of success that way.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )I mean, yeah, life, but that's terrible.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )but we are early in the process and really don't know how bad, or good, it will all turn out. So you just have to take it as it comes.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )Sorry to hear about your mom. I hope things all turn out well.
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| parent )the doctors think her positive attitude will help, so here's hoping.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )my Dad just went through radiation treatment for prostate cancer, I know it can be difficult. I hope your Mom does well, it is amazing how well they've refined most cancer treatments.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )treatment has come a long way, and that the American Cancer Society is a resource that provides all sorts of know how and moral support.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )Hope everything turns out ok, man.
--Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.
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| parent )70% chance of prolonged recovery, and there are far worse cancers than bladder (although her's is aggressive, which is a little odd) so things could be worse. And she's a strong willed old bird, so if the docs can arrest it I don't expect to keep her down and out for too long. Also the genes on that side of the family are favorable to women, they usually have long healthy lives (for the guys not so much, massive heart attacks in their 50s). Thanks for your well wishes. Of course my family would rather this wasn't happening but we are not surprised. My mom smoked for nearly 40 years and we all realize when you have bad habits like that they do tend to complicate your later years.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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| parent )That's nothing new. I've always complained about that...
I got sick of Christmas as a retail exercise years ago. We put up the tree on Christmas Eve and celebrate for 12 days afterwards. Lots of food, warmth and some gifts for the kiddies, but not the big ticket items...we made it about family and friends, not the stressful lootathon it has become.
Christmas is candlelight and greens hanging everywhere (my yard is full of them, all the good ones, the holly, the ivy, cedar, laural...) It's a twelve day round of dinners with others, NYE meshing in the middle as well as the Russian Orthodox Christmas...a goose here, a bottle of champagne there, fresh crab (it helps that we catch them ourselves), pies, cakes, eggnog, booze for the grown ups...others have joined me in this as the years have gone by...Christmas is a lot more fun this way. friends and loved ones gathering in fellowship and fun in the darkest days of the year. The Epiphany is the last day of our "season"...
I take the "12 days of Christmas" very seriously.. :)
I do stock up early as I see sales for especially tender morsels. And I confess that we popped the cork on the Perrier Jouët I had stashed for Xmas...we popped it on the evening of November 4th.
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)Times are good for us and we have little ones, so loot is de rigueur.
Beyond that, no travel plans. We put up our trees a couple of days ago and we'll just spend the season settling into home. I do believe I'll miss the possibility of a white Xmas, though.
--The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
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| parent )You're in suburban NJ, right? Are you moving?
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| parent )Not for cash reasons, but for the sake of peace and quiet.
Gifts for Christmas this year, as they have been for some time, will primary be self ordered via ebay and craigslist. Our entire family is addicted to the whole game. Now with the garage and basement storeroom full of minimally used items bought for 10 cents on the dollar, my kids are finding it as a source of funds by reselling same items on craigslist to support further toy testing on same sites. What fun! Imagine how quickly a 7 year old can learn to write when they are forced to write their own advertisements that enable them to collect the cash to replenish their paypal account.
The rest of my friends will probably get the same they always get, a good bottle of wine. Ordering by the cases direct from the winery is the way to go here.
However, the largest expense for Christmas, the vacation on the Big Island remains unchanged.
The main change to our spending habits actually occurred a few years ago. We simply starting demanding deals that approached or exceeded 50% discount from MSRPs. It can be done without too much effort if you know what you want and are patient...having the cash on hand to buy it when the opportunity presents is also key.
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)