Mid-Week Open Thread


And here we are again.
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"You Have Destroyed This Event." (#110258)
by M Scott Eiland

The above quote is attributed to 1964 Olympic men's long jump gold medalist Lynn Davies of Great Britain. He, of course, was speaking to Bob Beamon, moments after Beamon's astonishing leap of 29', 2 1/2" in the 1968 Olympics obliterated the existing world record by almost two feet and, indeed, removed the prospect of anyone breaking that record any time soon (it ended up standing until 1991). Davies' half-awed, half-frustrated reaction to witnessing a transcendent athletic feat came to mind tonight when I watched the final in the men's 100 meter run, and witnessed Usain Bolt obliterating the world record in the event without going all out. Seriously--he was letting up in the last fifteen meters: if he had continued accelerating into the tape he probably would have broken 9.60 instead of "settling" for a 9.69 that left a record five other sprinters who also broke ten seconds eating his dust by two-tenths of a second or more. He's twenty-one years old and has been running this event for only a year (he claims to be better in the 200--he'll have to prove that to me). If he isn't caught using drugs or victimized by injury, the 100 meters will be Usain Bolt's personal plaything for at least the next four years, and maybe longer--and the world record in the event may be resting below the 9.50 second mark before he retires. Even in an Olympics dominated by Michael Phelps' heroics, it was an astonishing achievement and a view of things to come.

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An amazing thing to witness, (#110287)
by aireachail

for sure. And you're right to make that comparison to Bob Beamon...the sense when watching that reality had shifted slightly was very similar. 'Course, Beamon didn't spend the rest of his career leaping 29', while I suspect Bolt will be equaling his mark fairly regularly. He's changed the expectations for the 100.

The 200 will be a must-see for me. As I watched Bolt pull away so easily from the pack, the first thing I thought of was the 200 and how far might he go...and how much more he might accelerate...given the extra distance.

I ran track in Jr High and High School in the 60's, and it was a given that "tall guys can't sprint". I think we can just stow that "truth" way with carburetors and dial telephones.

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Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham

August 16th (#110249)
by M Scott Eiland

For a nation that takes some pride at being without royalty, August 16th is an unusual date in United States history: it is the date on which a King and a Sultan--both very much American--left this world.

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PUMA madness (#110172)
by Blue Neponset

Oh my goodness. The Clinton dead-enders are just not going away. David Shuster was nice enough to embarrass a couple of them on MSNBC last night.


(h/t John Cole at Balloon Juice)

--

But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie

Schuster was Great (#110190)
by Harley

Tho' in fairness, these morons did a pretty good job of hanging themselves. Damn. Quite a spectacle.

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To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Does NBC Sports Internet Videos Blow Large Chunks or What?!? (#110171)
by Traveller

...I'm trying to watch some snipets of US Woman's Soccer...but I can't get it to play. Once I got it to play but it wasn't anything I wanted...so then I tired a different clip and since then, nada.

Is this too difficult for NBC to master?

Stupid !@$#^&%&*(*(()'s

Traveller

Didn't you know (#110183)
by HankP

that NBC videos require Microsoft Silverlight software to run? You have to install the Silverlight browser plugin or you simply will not be able to view the videos. I believe you even have to run some specific versions of MS Vista to get "enhanced content". You can look at this compatibility chart to see who can view Olympic videos and who can't.

This is exactly what should not be happening to the internet, you'll actually have to have specific versions of specific OSs and browsers just to access stuff.

--

I blame it all on the Internet

Magic, Redux (#110166)
by M Scott Eiland

For the second straight Olympics, Michael Phelps wins the 100 meter butterfly at the last possible instant--and this time it is for gold medal #7.

I certainly hope that Dara Torres is clean, because it looks like she's going to medal in the 50 meter freestyle--possibly winning it outright. A moment for perspective: when Dara Torres won her first Olympic medal in the 1984 Olympics, Janet Evans was twelve years old. Janet has been retired for twelve years now.

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Dana Torres (#110191)
by Harley

Has handled the inevitable skepticism pretty well. She's made sure her blood was store in such a way that it can be tested in the future when there are even more effective tests.

I'd say she's clean.

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To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

For snk (#110141)
by catchy

You wrote a piece on jury nullification awhile back and it was actually the first time I was introduced to the topic.

So naturally I thought of you when reading about this judge who tossed out a juror during trial when the juror asserted his right to judge the law in addition to the facts:

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/08/14/juror-becomes-fly-in-the-ointm...

Thanks (#110177)
by stillnotking

That's one of the issues where I definitely see eye-to-eye with CATO.

I love how Judge Young quoted John Adams in his memorandum of law. Adams, as Lynch points out, was one of the strongest proponents of jury nullification in the post-Revolution political leadership.

The trouble is, it's simply too easy for judges to remove any juror who brings up nullification. The only way it will ever become a factor is if so many people start doing it that judges are forced to declare mistrials and/or prosecute nullifiers for contempt. And that's not going to happen, because we all know which way the average American jumps when asked to choose between a judge and a drug dealer.

--

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

For bro- (#110140)
by catchy

Seem to remember you mentioning some past Black Hat activity and wondering if you were following the MIT kids who broke the MA Transit codes:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/08/injunction-requ.html

Nothing in the world is free (#110054)
by Sulla

As a few Obama supporters recently found out-

The Obama campaign has begun notifying people who got tickets for the big acceptance speech at Invesco Field the final night of the convention.

Many of those who received tickets told 7NEWS they have come with a caveat.

Those viewers said the campaign told them they must volunteer six hours for the campaign by Friday in order to get a ticket.

And being required to volunteer does not work well for some supporters-

The viewer e-mail goes on, "To work 40 hours at my job, get to and from work, get to and from the campaign office and complete the 12 hours in three days would be next to impossible."

Even for those who try it doesn’t always work out-

Loring Abeyta, from Denver, wrote, "I just read your article... about the confusion regarding tickets to Obama's speech, and the situation is worse than you reported. I went to the Campaign for Change office last Friday evening to earn three hours of credit toward my "All Star Credentials," and it was nothing but confusion. I went to one meeting where I thought I would earn my volunteer credit, and learned that I had gone to the wrong meeting and had not earned credit. When I told the volunteer coordinator how unhappy I was about spending my evening at the campaign office for nothing, she had nothing to say -- not even an apology for the confusion. It is utter disarray in that office and they have alienated me as a volunteer."

The rub seems to be how close you can come to experiencing the big O-

They said those who were told they must volunteer must have clicked on the opt-in button for "all-star seating" when they signed up for the tickets. If you click that button, then you are required to volunteer, but you get a better seat.

If you choose not to volunteer, you retain your place in line for what is called a "community credential," according to the campaign.

Six hours and you're an all-star, glad to see Obama isn't one who goes along with social promotion.

--

"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss

One ‘helpful dude’ (#110041)
by Sulla

For anyone interested in learning more about the dude who arranged the July 21 meeting between John Edwards and Rielle Hunter-

describing him as “an intuitive” and “a healer since 1988” who had worked “with energy in the area of the emotional fields.” The biography is no longer on the site.

“He uses philosophy, psychology and the intuitive to find resolutions that move people back into alignment with the universe and into a place of peace, harmony and joy,” the site said. “Bob uses the intuitive to help people with a variety of life issues, including relationships, career and health.”

I got the impression he’s a con man, but the article said he lives across the street from John Holmes. Last I knew John Holmes was dead, but if the helpful dude had a hand in his resurrection then there may be something to all this new age spirituality stuff after all.

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"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss

Heh, (#110043)
by Macallan

...there really are two Americas!

--

“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

Gaffe machine McCain (#110031)
by Blue Neponset

LINK

“My friends, we have reached a crisis, the first probably serious crisis internationally since the end of the Cold War. This is an act of aggression.”

I am beginning to understand why McCain graduated 894th out of the 899 midshipmen in his class at the Naval Academy. He doesn't seem to be too big on the book learning. Maybe the bottom one percent of your class is good enough to get into flight school* but is it good enough to become President?

The sad answer is yes. Dubya likes to remind people that he was a C student.

*If you are the son and grandson of an admiral.

--

But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie

How long (#110034)
by Spartacvs

before the campaign tries to walk this back as an unauthorized statement?

--

GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.

I finally got some footage of hobbesist's class (#110006)
by catchy


Ooops (#109968)
by M Scott Eiland

The Chinese have some explaining to do.

To point out the obvious, the rule requiring gymnasts to be sixteen years old at some point in the Olympic year to be eligible was passed for two reasons:

--to protect girls under sixteen from the rigors of competition, and;

--because girls under sixteen have flexibility advantages over older girls, which means that without a firm ban on younger girls coaches *will* use them.

If the Chinese knowingly used girls who were too young on their gymnastics team, they should be disqualified from all events where the ineligible girls participated--period. The fact that they beat the American team head-to-head is irrelevant to that as it would be if it were discovered that somehow a heavyweight fighter cheated the scales to fight against light heavyweights and won a gold medal--cheating is cheating. I've seen two reactions to this as far as defending the Chinese goes:

--"it isn't proven": this is a fair argument, but given the now documented places where the gymnasts were referred to as being too young, it should be up to the Chinese to refute them--not engage in hand-waving aided and abetted by the IOC and the media.

--"it doesn't matter--stop being a sore loser." Anyone who says this--particularly a member of the sports media--should be forced to read and re-read the story of Shirley Babashoff and the East German steroids cheating machine until their eyes bleed. It *does* matter--and shame on anyone who repeats despicable behavior of the past by saying otherwise.

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Unfortunately (#110011)
by Floater

If the Chinese knowingly used girls who were too young on their gymnastics team, they should be disqualified from all events where the ineligible girls participated--period.

the IOC does not seem to care. In the 2000 Games the Chinese used an underage gymnast who won a team and an individual bronze medal. In addition to the documentation at the time that indicated she might be underage she later admitted it in a TV interview. No action was ever taken by the IOC though.

I do feel for the girls themselves. A child in an authoritarian country doesn't have much choice in the matter but they should be stripped of those medals.

Well, That's One Potential Scandal Averted (#110008)
by M Scott Eiland

Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson of the United States go 1-2 in the women's gymnastics all-around: China's Yang Yilin wins the bronze.

Yang Yilin is, of course, one of the gymnasts with birthdate issues. As nasty as the controversy has become, it would have gotten substantially worse if the status of the all-around Women's Champion was called into question.

Gymnastics judging needs a lot of work with this new system--one of the most memorable moments of the night was of Nellie Kim--Nadia Comaneci's old rival and now President of the Women's Artistic Gymnastics Technical Committee (the organization that made the changes in the scoring system)--coming out of the stands to nudge the oft-dithering judges into completing the scoring of Nastia Liukin's balance beam routine. The new open-ended scoring system has potential, but it's still being run by all-too human judges with familiar outlooks and prejudices.

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Going Into Specifics (#109974)
by M Scott Eiland
If Marian Jones had to give back her medals (#109970)
by BlaiseP

The Chinese sweeties should give their back too. Between the fake-o singer and the manhandling of journalists, the Chinese have shown themselves crude and unsportsmanlike.

We have the phrase "Potemkin Villages" to describe this sort of thing, but when Grigori Potemkin built the cheerful little villages along the routes traveled by the Empress Catherine, they were real villages. This legend has been largely debunked: Potemkin did make the villages clean up prior to her visits, and he did build up the Crimea. But the malicious rumor remains, and with it the phrase.

China has nothing to be ashamed of: they're charming, hard-working people, justly proud of their accomplishments. Why the government had to tell these lies and behave so abominably is baffling. The Olympics only reinforce the image of a hypocritical builder of Potemkin Villages, squeezing tiny girls into gymnasts as the Manchu once squeezed the feet of girls into hideous tiny stumps. It's just awful.

Wanted: subjects for my next few essays. (#109967)
by BlaiseP

Georgia seems to have sucked the air out of the room, but I could write something about that, especially the military options, but that's basically a mashup of Chechnya and Afghanistan. For those interested in better writing on that front, check out Weekly Standard's Pain Game by Stuart Koehl and the related Wannabe Superpower by Reuben Johnson.

I'm at sixes and sevens about any more rhetoric about the presidential race. The subject is too-well-chewed by others.

Or I could do one of my History Thingies, those are fun to write. I'm of half a mind to continue my Trotsky rant, he's a fascinating character, but maybe only to me.

I'll take any and all suggestions seriously.

The Trotsky thing has grown hugely. (#110081)
by BlaiseP

And will be issued in several installments.

anything unrelated to domestic politics (#110003)
by catchy

is my preference w. a positive vote for Trotsky.

Raised Eyebrows...Of Interest to Me Would be a Thinly Veiled Bio (#110005)
by Traveller

...of BlaiseP.

Let's name him Mickey or Michael, tell it in the third person to give some emotional distance, and, from time to time take some literary license....

As you wish life would have been, or deliberate lies telling how life went bad when it didn't at all.

This fictional sections, (but what is ever really fictional?...at a minimum these sections would represent your wishes, desires or odd directions of your mind, which always speaks volumes), should be italicized...because we would need your help as readers.

Give it a go....there are just toooooooo many interesting turns to your life.

Best Wishes, Traveller

In the Clear Light of Day, I Realize This Request of Mine.... (#110060)
by Traveller

...was maybe cruel and impossible.

Who the hell knows about themselves, anyway?

It was just the Guatemala, Spanish School, Religious affiliations, Houston, New Orleans, Atlanta axis left me curious.

And your picture was interesting...who is this fellow, who also seemingly has a site on world news, translates Arabic....and on and on and on...

So accept my apologizes.

Traveller

Well, I did write such a thing, every novelist does (#110065)
by BlaiseP

-- a long, turgid, tendentious semi-autobiographical tome, featuring a version of Yours Truly. Oh the Sturm! Oh the Drang! Our Hero emerged, like Odysseus upon the beach, well, more like Tiresias after his many transformations, to tell the tale.

Phlebas the Phoenician, a fortnight dead,
Forgot the cry of gulls, the deep sea swell
And the profit and loss.
                                A current under sea
Picked his bones in whispers. As he rose and fell
He passed the stages of his age and youth,
Entering the whirlpool.
                                        Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

And promptly threw the nasty thing away. Best thing I ever did. Had a writing teacher later tell me, laughing, that every good writer writes that same novel, and should throw it away before it comes back to embarrass him.

Okay Then, Your CV Will Do....Besides, Hobbist's Classroom... (#110066)
by Traveller

...was posted today that that really raised eyebrows!

(Yes, I realize it wasn't his classroom, but the thought that it might be, really made me laugh).

Traveller

I liked the idea (#110063)
by catchy

Bio of Pushkin (#110002)
by Weyland

And his influence on modern Russian poetry?

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For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise - B. Franklin

I am curious about Trotsky (#109971)
by Bill White

Or perhaps a biography of Vladimir Putin

--

Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

Remembering The Rock (#109966)
by M Scott Eiland

ESPN.com pays tribute to the one and only undefeated and undisputed world heavyweight boxing champion who retired that way. Marciano was loved by millions and had a lot of pride, even long after his retirement:

Marciano tried his hand at television and radio work, but the old street fire occasionally surfaced, such as in 1964, when he was in Miami doing radio spots for the Sonny Liston-Muhammad Ali fight.

"Rocky went to the gym where Liston trained," Duva said. "He was supposed to interview him, but Liston kept teasing Rocky, saying, 'You wouldn't last two rounds with me.' Rocky stayed calm, but he was getting mad. Finally, Rocky said, 'Get me some trunks, some shoes, and gloves and let's see what happens.' Rocky was serious. Liston's people ran in like they were doing the 100-yard dash, grabbed Sonny and took him out of the gym."

--

Too much Diplomacy playing? (#109959)
by Bill White

NRO Corner link:

A friend e-mails:

Rich, I have advocated not pushing NATO membership for Ukraine or Georgia against Russian objections, but if Russia detaches the two breakaway provinces from Georgia, I think fast induction into NATO should be the centerpiece of our response. In the short term, Rice should include a visit to Berlin in her travel; that is where the obstacle to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia resides; she should convince them that Russian alteration of international borders through violence must have strategic consequences for Russia. And I don't mean expulsion from the G8 or boycotting the Olympics. I mean something more like ... losing Sevastopol.

* * *

Fast-tracking NATO membership for Ukraine and stationing significant NATO forces there, and making clear that the defense of Ukraine's territorial integrity is their role, will guarantee that the Crimea stays Ukrainian and that Sevastopol passes from Russian hands within 10 years. There may not be a suitable alternative deep-water port on the Black Sea large enough to base Russia's Black Sea fleet. Russia's ability to dominate the Black Sea and project force into the Eastern Mediterranean could be turned back to the 18th century.

* * *

The loss of Sevastopol — Russia's equivalent of Norfolk — is the perfect punishment. And what a great new base it would make for the U.S. Sixth Fleet.

Wow!

What are the odds Merkel and Sarkozy go along with this?

Even if Condi unleashes her Jedi powers.

--

Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

Gorbachev and Saakashvili on Larry King tonight (#109956)
by Bill White

NRO Corner link:

"So Mikheil, What Do You Make of This Russia Thing?" [Byron York]

From CNN publicity:

Georgian President MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI appears on CNN’s Larry King Live tonight, Thursday, August 14, at 9 p.m. ET, to react to former Soviet Union President Mikhail Gorbachev’s interview with Larry King about the Georgian conflict, also part of tonight’s program.

--

Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

News from Pakistan (#109889)
by Jay C

Musharraf to resign .

Jumping before he was pushed?

Wonder how this will affect our "War on Terror" Great Game in Pakistan/Afghanistan? Not positively, I suppose...

It's Official (#109886)
by Harley

Since June, Senators Obama and Clinton have been working together to ensure a Democratic victory this November. They are both committed to winning back the White House and to to ensuring that the voices of all 35 million people who participated in this historic primary election are respected and heard in Denver. To honor and celebrate these voices and votes, both Senator Obama's and Senator Clinton's names will be placed in nomination.

"I am convinced that honoring Senator Clinton's historic campaign in this way will help us celebrate this defining moment in our history and bring the party together in a strong united fashion," said Senator Barack Obama.

Senator Obama's campaign encouraged Senator Clinton's name to be placed in nomination as a show of unity and in recognition of the historic race she ran and the fact that she was the first woman to compete in all of our nation's primary contests.

"With every voice heard and the Party strongly united, we will elect Senator Obama President of the United States and put our nation on the path to peace and prosperity once again," said Senator Hillary Clinton.

Senator Obama and Senator Clinton are looking forward to a convention unified behind Barack Obama as the Party's nominee and to victory this fall for America.

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Uh Oh (#110004)
by M Scott Eiland

“Um, Senator Obama? Some squid-looking guy has something to tell you."

[crunching noise from around the corner]

HRC [walks in with big serving plate]: “Calamari, anyone?”

--

Super-delegate Hillary Clinton to vote for Obama (#109888)
by Bill White

The source adds that the mechanics of this are still being worked out, but it's "likely" that Clinton will release her delegates to vote for Obama after her name is submitted. Clinton -- who is a superdelegate -- will cast her delegate vote for Obama.

Now THAT would be a dramatic moment . . .

--

Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

Sue These Idiots, Please (#109871)
by M Scott Eiland

LA City Council demands that big-box stores provide day laborer shelters.

Impeachment would be preferable, but suing them--or LA--blind will do.

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Scheduling Note, Redux (#109827)
by M Scott Eiland

With Michael Phelps' quest for eight golds in swimming being alive and well at this point, along with some interesting themes that have developed in some of the other competitions--particularly in the gymnastics competitions--I'm aiming for a second diary late Saturday/early Sunday, to be followed with a third fairly quickly dealing with the beginning of the track and field competition.

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There's always 2012 (#109841)
by hobbesist

James Blake def. Roger Federer 6-4, 7-6(2). Blake wasn't exactly 'on' - he had a 3:1 unforced error-to-winner ratio - but Federer was definitely off, hitting 4 UFEs for every winner, and with a positively abysmal first serve percentage in the 2nd set. This has to be a brutal let-down for Federer, not only because he'd made no secret of his desire for the gold; and not only because he'd never lost to James Blake; but also because he'd just come off a victory over the man who'd handed him a surprise defeat in the 2004 Athens games.

I'd been inclined to excuse Federer's losses in the wake of that brutal Wimbledon - meeting a hot, streaking Gilles Simon in the first round of Toronto; losing without losing serve against big-serving Karlovic in Cincinnati - and it's not as if there aren't excuses available this time (the scheduling, especially for those doing singles & doubles, is almost as unkind as the weather), but this isn't looking good.

--

Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.

"Selected, Not Elected" (#109776)
by M Scott Eiland
"In the 21st century nations don't invade other nations." (#109759)
by Blue Neponset

So says the non-celebrity running for President.


--

But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie

Or occupy them, presumably? n/t (#109760)
by Spartacvs
A political murder? (#109758)
by Jay C

Tragic (and fairly odd) news today from Little Rock, AR: just before noon today, a man went into the Arkansas Democratic Party's office in downtown Little Rock, barged into the State Party Chairman's office, shot him three times , and fled.

Bill Gwatney, 49, was rushed to a hospital, but died just before 4:00pm.

State and local police gave chase to a suspect, who drove out of town for thirty miles before being stopped and being shot in a
shootout with police
. Wounded, he was taken to another hospital, where he shortly died, as well.

Given that the suspect is dead, authorities have no clue at present as to the shooter's motivation: whether it was a random nut, a disgruntled ex-employee, or, more alarmingly, a "political" hit, hasn't been determined yet.

Grousing about politically-related "violence" in our election process is a biennial pastime, I know: but thankfully, it is mostly on the level of defaced posters and stolen lawn signs; with only the (very) occasional burglary/vandalism/arson to get concerned about. Mr. Gwatney's murder, one hopes, was just an act of random criminality, or a personal-grudge thing: it would be rally disturbing to think it was a harbinger of a new level of (negative) political "activism".

McCain, Hypocrisy, You Know the Drill (#109737)
by Harley

from Tom Friedman:

John McCain recently tried to underscore his seriousness about pushing through a new energy policy, with a strong focus on more drilling for oil, by telling a motorcycle convention that Congress needed to come back from vacation immediately and do something about America’s energy crisis. “Tell them to come back and get to work!” McCain bellowed.

Sorry, but I can’t let that one go by. McCain knows why.

It was only five days earlier, on July 30, that the Senate was voting for the eighth time in the past year on a broad, vitally important bill — S. 3335 — that would have extended the investment tax credits for installing solar energy and the production tax credits for building wind turbines and other energy-efficiency systems.

Both the wind and solar industries depend on these credits — which expire in December — to scale their businesses and become competitive with coal, oil and natural gas. Unlike offshore drilling, these credits could have an immediate impact on America’s energy profile.

Senator McCain did not show up for the crucial vote on July 30, and the renewable energy bill was defeated for the eighth time. In fact, John McCain has a perfect record on this renewable energy legislation. He has missed all eight votes over the last year — which effectively counts as a no vote each time. Once, he was even in the Senate and wouldn’t leave his office to vote.

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Maybe Gori *has* "fallen"? (#109701)
by Jay C

Maybe we should put Gori back into the "fallen" category.
A recent (0700 Weds 13 Aug) report from the BBC says that Russian troops are patrolling the town, and dismantling Georgian military installations on its periphery. Though no fighting seems to be taking place at the moment - the cease-fire is, maybe, holding. For now.

UPDATE: Or then again: maybe not.

Originally purchased by the US taxpayers? (#109710)
by Bill White

From the second link:

"In the vicinity of Gori, a big military depot was discovered containing Georgian military hardware," he told Reuters. "The depot was unguarded and the military hardware there was battle-ready. In the interests of demilitarising the conflict zone and ensuring the safety of the population, the military hardware and ammunition are now being removed."

It would be foolish for Russia to occupy Georgia (other than those two provinces which appear to desire occupation) however Russia probably is dismantling as much Georgian military infrastructure as they can.

--

Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

Probably not, Bill (#109711)
by Jay C

While I am certainly not an expert on these matters (and would appreciate any corrective input from anyone who is) - I think, based on what I have read, that most of the Georgians' military hardware is ex-Soviet/Russian materiel - another reason for their wanting to join NATO, apparently was the prospect of general (and generous) re-equipping of their arsenal up to European/American standards. I gather than the problem with Georgia's armaments is not so much the quality, but the hugely inferior quantity of weaponry they could deploy.

Which brings up the question of what, exactly, in military terms, the Georgians did get for their association/cooperation with the US? Other than some training/support for anti-terrorist COIN operations in eastern Georgia, that is: operations now, most likely, relegated to a mere sideshow.

Oh, and I think: some upgrades to an airbase near Tblisi.

What era of history would you live in? (#109699)
by Wagster

When I'm asked that question, I would answer around 500BC.

If you were born at that time you would have a chance to sit at the feet of Socrates, and if you had the means of locomotion, the Gautama Buddha, Lao Tse, and Confucius as well. Is it just a wild coincidence that the mind that founded Western philosophical inquiry and the three great minds that are the well-spring for much of eastern thought all lived at the same time?

--

More Wagster!

Assuming... (#109705)
by stillnotking

that you managed to live past infancy (no mean feat in those days), and that you were a member of the perhaps 1% of the human race that was literate.

I doubt it's a wild coincidence -- more a consequence of technological innovation (the spread of "modern" writing) and maybe some cognitive evolution*.

*Then again, we don't know how many Buddhas and Socrates lived in earlier times, when there would have been little chance of the ideas spreading out of their immediate community.

--

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Oh, there's (#109713)
by Wagster

Lots of impediments to actually enjoying the gifts of all of these bright lights. I'm thinking more in sci-fi terms.

--

More Wagster!

Good for you! (#109738)
by Kierkegaard

Exactly the kind of speculation I love most. Wish you'd work this idea up as a diary.

My fave time-travel fantasies, in terms of literary and historical interested divided by health and safety concerns (which rule out ancient Rome, for example, where the solitary time-traveller might have his throat cut or be sold into slavery) are:

1. Victorian London and Paris. A shadowy banking tycoon, I divide my time between the two cities, where I hold literary salons, patronize great painters, and enjoy a private brothel endowed as a college for young women.

2. 1930s Hollywood. A mysterious wealthy figure newly arrived from the East, I build a new film studio to rival the great ones. Nights are spent in a glittering round of restaurant-going and parties with the famous, days dozing on the beach among my stable of starlets.

3. London in the Swinging Sixties. A mysterious wealthy figure turned rock music promoter, I...well, you get the picture.

Speaking of which, K. (#109747)
by Bernard Guerrero

I recall sometime back you took a look at a story of mine. I've been considering going back to it, and I thought I might post it here for criticism. I'd be obliged if you'd take a look.

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The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer

Surely would, Bernard! (#109751)
by Kierkegaard

Half the people on this site are already writing fiction anyway--why shouldn't we do so openly? ;)

How To Crush The Spirits Of World Class Athletes (#109697)
by M Scott Eiland

Phelps squints his way to world record and tenth gold medal after swimming goggles malfunction.

I remember watching Eric Heiden fall down in a 5000 meter race back in 1980, get back up, and still manage to obliterate the rest of the field and come within an eyelash of breaking his own world record at the distance--his opponents must have felt like how anyone who has to swim against Michael Phelps for the rest of these Olympic Games must be feeling now.

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Andrew Dice Clay's Post-Comedy Career (#109695)
by M Scott Eiland
Heh. (#109698)
by catchy

Tho FTR, Dice has no post-comedy career -- he's been stuck in pre-comedy phases his entire life.

... even as a fan of bad movies I can't get through Ford Fairlane; Dice Clay's too obnoxious.

Also FTR, Batteries not Included is the worst movie of all time.

Where'd He Go? (#109694)
by M Scott Eiland

Disappearing US relay swimmer found!

Jones was probably seriously wiped--he was the only one of the four US swimmers in the final who had also gone in the semifinals, where the US set the record that was so thoroughly vaporized in the final (the top five teams all beat it).

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Also In The Deeply Stupid Category (#109693)
by M Scott Eiland

There are literally hundreds of things that the Chinese government can be legitimately criticized for. This isn't one of them. Trying to portray poor little Lin Miaoke as some sort of reincarnation of Rob Pilatus is deeply tacky and not worthy behavior for adults. As for Yang Peiyi, maybe the attention will get her a recording contract at the demand of all the people complaining about lookism. Good for her.

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George Queries Vladimir ... (#109692)
by Traveller

These attached linked stories are so good, I should maybe use them to form the basis for a new diary...but hey, you guys can read....very penetrating analysis:

Confusion on the Russian Side: (Published after Russians moved)

http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2373302

Blunders by Georgians and Provocations by Ossetians (Published before Russian Reaction)

http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2373294

Publication dates are critical!

Traveller

Shevardnadze offers his perspective . . . (#109700)
by Bill White

Link

We have a tradition that, in times of crisis, the opposition stands united behind the president and does not attack him," he was quoted as saying. "But Georgia should not have advanced into Tskhinvali (South Ossetia's capital) in so unprepared a way. That was a grave error."

The crisis over Georgia has strained Russia's relations with the West. Shevardnadze, a former Soviet foreign minister, said the issue of Georgia in itself would not cause a new Cold War.

However, "the new Cold War has long since been instigated by the USA, through the Americans' so-called missile defense shield in the Czech Republic and Poland," he was quoted as saying. Plans for missile defense bases in those two countries have angered Russia.

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Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

Revisiting A Comforting, Bedrock Solid Truth (#109666)
by M Scott Eiland
Mexican people and meats (#109689)
by Micky Love

I met a Swedish agronomist (farm scientist) studying in Hanoi, Vietnam some years ago. Meat in Sweden is sold in spotlessly clean supermarkets and wrapped in plastic. It is even treated with cosmetic red dyestuff to make its appearance more appetizing to consumers. Meat in Vietnam is sold unwrapped on the street covered with dust and flies. Yet it was the Vietnamese meat that the agronomist said was healthier, provided that it was adequately cooked before consuming. The additives present in European food were not used in Vietnam. (Vietnamese also consume less meat despite the lower price.) I'm assuming the same difference exists between US and Mexican people and meats.

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Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

If you're still in Korea (#109691)
by catchy

could you tell us if the meat riots in Seoul are still going on? And in your opinion were they justified?

the sale of sand and rocks (#109704)
by Micky Love

I think they are getting a little rougher, and most of the violence has taken the form of police beating, and blasting crowds with water cannons and other chemicals.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-6veMEKUomY&feature=related

That should warm M. Eiland's heart...

As far as beef is concerned, I'm ambivalent about the protests. I'm a vegetarian and in principal I favour free movement of goods and people across borders. I understand also that US beef is probably not tainted, though I also understand why Koreans would not be so eager to give US regulatory bodies the benefit of the doubt.

The good news, as far as I'm concerned, is that the protests, the largest in Korean history, I've heard, have caused President Lee (aka The Bulldozer) to call off his insane plans for the construction of the Grand Korean Canal. An enormous public works project that was planned to connect Seoul with Busan on the south coast - by a shipping canal. I figure it was never more than a white elephant to shower Lee's buddies from the construction industry with public money. Lee made his reputation on various projects in Algeria and Saudi Arabia etc.

"About half of the cost estimated at about 15 trillion won (16.07 billion dollars) will be covered by the sale of sand and rocks," Choo said. "About half of the cost estimated at about 15 trillion won (16.07 billion dollars) will be covered by the sale of sand and rocks," Choo said.

Local builders have welcomed the project. Hyundai Engineering and Construction president Lee Jong-Soo said Thursday his company would form a joint task force with four other major builders interested in the scheme.

Lee has described the canal as "the environmental revitalisation of the 21st century" -- linking four major rivers and improving water quality through dredging and other clean-up measures.

The grand canal, he claims, would also reduce flooding, create an international tourist attraction and -- most importantly -- slash transport costs and improve the environment by taking container traffic off the roads.

http://news.trendaz.com/index.shtml?show=news&newsid=1105025&lang=EN

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Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Strange country (#109838)
by stillnotking

Very, very strange country. Who can figure the Koreans?

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The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Fan Deaths?!? SNK, Thanks for the very Weird Link...(Pic Also) (#109911)
by Traveller

...The Best Of the Forvm experience is learning new things....that never in your wildest imaginations would one imagine.

Cool.

Regarding recent spate of name calling, I just don't get it...great people Mickey, K, Scott, Mac and Blaise...

The worse I suppose was Mickey's Racial Reference...but I would caution people that it was used in reference to a very important idea...It got the point out there that Obama will kill Brown people like any other American President.

Now I'm not saying this is true...or even that any American President ever liked killing brown people....but it is a striking meme that needs to be seen to be understood...the fresh antiseptic application of light?

I don't know, but I did go Whoa...what is Mickey saying?

I like Whoa moments.

More importantly, Mickey did not use the pronoun, "You."

Why is everyone going there? "You," feel this, "you," think that, "you," are this way....as my grandmammy saids `a me, "Tain nobody knows how nother person thinks, not really....they're all masks."

Lastly, it would be nice to remember with a smile the point of this cartoon:

If we could cut out the use of the work, "You," meaning the other person...I sense this problem would not be so acute.

Best Wishes, Traveller

Comment Not The Commenter, Micky (#109774)
by M Scott Eiland

I might have let that go--but it's been suggested that I'm not being even-handed with this sort of thing, so I won't.

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costs can be trimmed (#109833)
by Micky Love

I thought you'd get a kick out of the video. Police were brutalizing protesters.

The protests are not so much anti-american, as anti-lee, the new president.

Canal costs can be trimmed if workers were to receive their pay in sand and gravel rather than cash.

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Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Rephrasing And Repeating. . . (#109858)
by M Scott Eiland

. . .the same insult you've just been warned about is not the way to avoid problems, Micky. Between this and the gratuitous racial slurs in your recent exchanges with Blaise, you're going to be looking at another suspension if you don't cut it out--and if memory serves you have two prior ones at this point, meaning the third is good-bye for good. Consider your next comments carefully.

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my greatest crime (#109987)
by Micky Love

I didn't mean to insult anyone. Sorry if I offended you. I was just trying to poke fun in a humorous way. I have absolutely no interest in personal enmity, but I can be irreverent. This is my greatest crime.

The racial slurs are real enough, they are not gratuitous.

The video I linked to was real too. I wanted to use it to show the 'rioting.'

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Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

I liked Brendan's suggestion (#109868)
by catchy

of letting the other 2 mods deal w. threads a mod is directly involved in.

Not that you're wrong in this instance, but I think it's a desirable precedent.

I See The Point. . . (#109870)
by M Scott Eiland

. . .but that approach also limits the amount of mods who can immediately address a problem, and Tomsyl has been off having a real life for most of the past couple of weeks (unreasonable so-and-so that he is for doing so). As you suggest, it isn't a particularly controversial idea that commenters aren't allowed to explicitly insult each other--then repeat the insult when called on it. The whole racial slur thing just makes it more unpleasant. Micky knows what the rules are, and he needs to follow them.

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Now i member why i got outta this biz. (#109872)
by catchy

Agonizing over these stupid decisions is annoyin!

Thanks Micky (#109716)
by catchy

Largest protests in Korean history? Interesting. I'm curious if this is some sort of marker of general anti-US sentiment in S. Korea.

... yeah, little hard to believe selling rocks + sand would offset 8 billion ... but maybe Lee has a lot of pretty agates.

Some leftish publications (#109834)
by Micky Love

Some leftish publications make the specific claim about the size of the protests, other press is more vague. Very large in any case, larger than others in recent memory like those against Iraq, which were also fairly big.

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Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Korean canal. (#109721)
by Jay C

Yes, thanks, Micky: fascinating. However, looking at even a bares-bones description of the Grand Korean Waterway project (its formal name), leads me to believe that Pres. Lee's "estimate" of a "$16 Billion" pricetag is - to be charitable - a monumental lowballing of its probable true cost.

One of Wikipedia's linked articles cites a contradictory estimate of "$50 Billion" - which, given the scope of this project (a "21-kilometer-long" barge-capable tunnel?) - is probably a lot closer the mark (if not low).

And unless they are excavating this canal mostly though veins of high-grade platinum ore or something, it's really doubtful whether selling off the gravel is going to make back much, if at all.

That one's worth a quote, (#109671)
by Steve Peterson

That one's worth a quote, Scott!

"We think that Mexicans and other immigrants should be warned if they cross into the U.S. they are putting their health at risk by leaving behind a healthier, staple diet of corn tortillas, beans, rice, fruits and vegetables," said Lindsay Rajt, assistant manager of PETA's vegan campaigns.

Speaking of which, you'd probably be very entertained by a story idea I'm developing.

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Steven Palmer Peterson

Wouldn't Be The First Time (#109696)
by M Scott Eiland

Just as long it isn't about a baby vulture lion adopted by Steven Seagal--I'd have to hurt you. ]:-)

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Not to pry, but I'm curious (#109717)
by catchy

a baby vulture lion adopted by Steven Seagal

what's the inside joke here?

Just in case you don't know (#109736)
by Steve Peterson

Just in case you don't know vulture lions are a big monster with the head of a vulture and body of a lion found in Michael Moorcock's Elric series. Here's an example (and, coincidentally enough, written up in Champions RPG stats.

We had been playing Champions with me as the gamemaster and I had a situation where Scott's character had to face a vulture lion. But Scott's character was pretty tough, so the fight was going to turn out pretty easy once his character zoomed up to full speed and plowed right through the vulture lion.

Not wanting to deprive Scott of a challenging battle I made one small adjustment and had the vulture lion suddenly know judo -- so that when Scott's character plowed into him the vulture lion deftly did a judo toss and re-directed Scott's character's head into the pavement.

For some reason Scott seems to think that judo-knowing vulture lions stretch plausibility a bit.

And Steven Seagal is just Steven Seagal.

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Steven Palmer Peterson

I knew it (#109756)
by catchy

Scott seems to think that judo-knowing vulture lions stretch plausibility a bit.

He balks at far out hypos.

Nuthin to do w. avoiding arguments like BBR claimed, Scott just lacks possible worlds patience.

And how do you do judo on that you ask?

Gripe about the implausibility of Buffy the Vampire Slayer at every op.

*glances at Vulture Lion stats* (#109755)
by M Scott Eiland

Bah--no need to for Shadow Man to have had to move through on *that*--it's more like a Vulture Kitten. The ones you threw at me had ten levels of Growth and did 8d6 killing damage with their claws when they weren't just batting you around with STR dam for 16d6 or so. Or aikido.

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