Good Lord.

Submitted by Punditus Maximus on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 6:20pm. Tags:

Politics

It just hit me again that it's been more than seven years since the 9/11 attacks. If you'd told me at the time that:

1) bin Laden will still not be caught after the end of two Presidential terms, and
2) anyone would still vote for the Party that President headed during those terms,

I would have stared at you like you'd grown a new head. If 1, then Libertarians. But (1) I would have viewed as simply impossible. No one could care that little.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

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Right (#135844)

by Bird Dog on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 9:27am

Because bin Laden's capture or death is the only measure of progress in this War Against Militant Islamism.

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

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No (#135987)

by HankP on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 3:14pm

but it is a measure, and a very important one politically and psychologically.

Let's turn it around, if a Dem was in office instead of Bush would you be so quick to dismiss it?

I blame it all on the Internet

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That's nothing. (#136178)

by Punditus Maximus on Wed, 11/12/2008 - 1:19pm

Wait until (if) President Obama brings him back for trial. Then it'll be a sign of Democratic weakness.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

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Sigh. -nt- (#135985)

by Punditus Maximus on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 3:08pm

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

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Number 3 (#135819)

by BChurch on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 12:16am

If you'd told me at the time that we'd not have had another terrorist attack on mainland America at the time, I wouldn't have believed that either.

Some credit goes to Bush with Afghanistan-- although pulling out early for Iraq was clearly a mistake, it looks like the initial attack and removal of the Taliban did a pretty good job of knocking the wind of out al-Qaeda. Not to mention whatever sort of asset freezing, etc. went on behind the scenes. Guantanamo and Camp Xray, plus the secret prisons throughout Europe are a black mark on the ideals of the US; but although I think the former two are mostly useless and plagued by false and unsubstantiated arrests, we just don't know enough about the latter to judge their effectiveness. We could probably infer some of the same problems, though, and again even assuming they were somewhat effective, it wouldn't make the methods used right.

I'd also attribute it to a tendency to overestimate the operational capacity of al-Qaeda right after 9-11.

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Anthrax attacks. (#135822)

by Punditus Maximus on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 12:19am

Again. Dammit.

It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

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Right you are (#135825)

by BChurch on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 12:38am

Although those came in such close proximity to the 9/11 attacks that I don't know that there was much time in between for reflective prognosticating. When I try to remember what I was thinking right after 9/11, the anthrax attacks are there sort of in the present tense. That doesn't diminish their importance, of course.

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Well, we are easier to bomb. I guess we should be thankful. (#135826)

by mmghosh on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 12:47am

Figures.

Oct. 29, 2005 — Sixty-two people are killed when three blasts rip through markets in New Delhi ahead of Diwali, a Hindu holiday.

_ March 7, 2006 — Three explosions rock a Hindu temple and a train station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi, killing 20 people.

_ July 11, 2007 — Seven blasts rip through railway stations and commuter trains in Mumbai, India's commercial capital, killing at least 187.

_ Sept. 8, 2006 — A series of explosions, including one at a mosque, kill at least 31 people in Malegaon, a town northeast of Mumbai.

_ Feb. 19, 2007 — A train heading from India to Pakistan is torn apart by two bombs, sparking a fire that kills at least 68 people.

_ May 18, 2007 — A bomb goes off during Friday prayers at a historic mosque in the southern city of Hyderabad, killing 11 worshippers. Police later shoot and kill five people in clashes with hundreds of enraged Muslims protesting the attack.

_ Aug. 25, 2007 — At least 43 people are killed by three explosions at a park and a street-side food stall in Hyderabad.

_ Oct. 11, 2007 — A blast at the shrine of a venerated 12th century Sufi Muslim saint in north Indian town of Ajmer kills three people.

_ Oct. 14, 2007 — A bomb explodes in a packed movie theater in the northern industrial town of Ludhiana on one of the holiest days of the Muslim calendar, Eid al-Fitr, killing six people.

_ Nov. 24, 2007 — A series of near-simultaneous explosions rip through courthouse complexes in the north Indian cities of Lucknow, Varanasi and Faizabad, killing at least 16 people.

_ May 13, 2008 — Seven bombs tear through crowded markets and rip apart streets outside Hindu temples in the western city of Jaipur, killing at least 61 people.

_ July 25, 2008 — Seven small bombs hit Bangalore, a southern city that is the hub of India's technology industry, killing at least two people.

_ July 26, 2008 — At least 22 small bombs explode in Ahmedabad in the state of Gujarat, killing at least 42 people.

_ Sept. 13, 2008 — At least five explosions in crowded shopping areas kill at least 18 people and wound 61 in New Delhi.

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Doesn't your first sentence give you a hint? (#135779)

by nc on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 6:37pm

Republicans win elections because of national security issues. Right now, Republicans lose elections on just about every other issue. Luckily for Obama (and unluckily for McCain), this election was about the economy and financial markets, and not Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, N. Korea, Russia and China.

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It would have been even better for Obama (#135834)

by Jordan on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 8:13am

if the election had been about Bush foreign policy. We could've closed the door on hunch-based, emotion-driven military adventures for a good long while. It's too bad, really, a teachable moment lost.

As it happens, the election turned into a referendum on another Bush admin bungle; their total failure to be stewards of the economy.

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH

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In what way (#135833)

by wombaticus on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 7:58am

Would an election based on Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, Russia and China have been to McCain's advantage?

They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...
-- General John B. Sedgwick, 1864

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