Floodgates Open on Edwards
I'm willing to post this so we've got one location to talk about how we shouldn't be deigning to talk about this:
Edwards Admits Sexual Affair; Lied as Presidential Candidate
Personally, I don't think this amounts to anything for anyone else in politics -- just means Edwards won't be getting anything significant down the line if Obama wins.
A talking head said:
This will hurt everyone
Hyperbole much? He's just another charming politician who screwed around. Doesn't hurt me.
--
Steven Palmer Peterson
- Steve Peterson's blog
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References -
Exploring the New Age lifestyle angle.
Given the central, ahem, inconvenience of this particular scandal, one wonders if "New Age" is a euphemism for "clueless about adequate birth control."
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)In his personal life isn't and shouldn't be fodder for the media. For one thing, it's vile in that it makes the pain of the cuckolded spouse all the worse by making the whole thing a media circus. Smarter and more capable men have been drawn into worse mistakes by letting themselves be led around by their penises. Like this guy, for example.
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)That's why it's a story, even after he withdrew. If this news had come out after he had he become the Dem nominee, he would've singlehandedly blown the Dems' chances for our nation's highest office.
The double standard here is all too obvious. The rumors about Edwards were swirling for a about a year, and the only media outlet that sunk its teeth in was the Enquirer. Yet the New York Times saw fit to front-page a rumored but unproven and unsubstantiated affair between McCain and a lobbyist.
Given Edwards' goddawful judgment in this matter, he showed to the world that he had no business vying for the job of POTUS. He should go back to lawyering, because he sucks as a politician, even with that pretty-boy face and hair. His wife deserved better.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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)This is interesting, from Josh Marshall:
Heh. You might get your substantiation after all. Which would be cool.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )McCain screwed up his first marriage 28 years ago, and publicly 'fessed up to the mistakes he made. As I recall, the previous Dem nominee had a failed first marriage, then married a billionaire. The press isn't going to make McCain's first marriage an issue because doing so would expose their rank hypocrisy.
Oh, and David Gregory is a moron.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )in McCains case. And trading the old crippled wife in for a younger prettier and much wealthier model. Kerry didn't even meet his second wife until 8 years after the separation with his first. But hey you knew that already but it doesn't seem to stop you from making an invalid comparison. McCains behavior with his first wife was contemptible. He said he was "immature" at that time. I guess 40 is the new 20 these days right. He was not a national figure at the time so most Americans don't know much about what happened but trying to claim press hypocrisy and bringing up John Kerry is laughable.
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| parent )I think this whole thing will just remind people that of the three democratic front runners, only one of them appears to have a healthy and happy family -
- and this despite everyone knowing that Obama certainly must be exposed to constant temptation of a much more potent nature than the other guys:
Mmmmmm, Scarlett --
-- oh, wait, now I'm being racist! I'm ashamed of myself!
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )I now await the upcoming lecture about how making fun of the racial dog whistle meme is just a ham-handed effort to peddle McCain talking points. waiting, waiting....
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )Of course, that's just in the sense that Derek Jeter and Joe DiMaggio are overrated.
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| parent )and I wouldn't dispute that we seem to have missed a bullet there and have no trouble condemning Edward's behavior as a candidate.
But is there a similar bullet awaiting McCain? Inquiring minds might want to know?
Personally I'd rather not go there, but if you insist.
Shouldn't we be insisting the Enquirer chase down this one just as vigorously as they pursued Edwards?
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )Quote:
I think you're insisting on the wrong thing, sparti. If you don't think having four reporters spending months tracking down an alleged affair isn't "vigourous", then perhaps you should tell me what you think the terms means.
I was watching one of the Edwards campaign beat reporters on Anderson Cooper last night (Yellin?). She didn't do any investigating. Edwards gave an emphatic answer to the affair allegations a while back, and the collective response from her and her colleagues in the MSM was an embarrassed, "Well, OK, sorry for asking." For McCain, four reporters were assigned to the story, spent months of efforts on it, and all they had was hearsay from two disillusioned sources, and Keller published it anyway, despite the lack of any evidence.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )for the Enquirer to get its crack reporters on the case.
Perhaps there's nothing to it, or perhaps McCain and his campaign are just better than Edwards at concealing his transgressions? Either way, consistency would seem to require that the Enquirer do their worst with the meager leads the Times dug up. Other than that your argument would seem to be with the Times in particular and not the news media in general.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )...four reporters spending months of digging isn't vigorous. Sounds like you have your very own definition of what the word means.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )Let's just say that whatever resources the NYT may have devoted to the story, the Enquirer has shall we say certain expertise in these matters that the NYT probably does not.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )In fairness, it seems that the Enquirer reporters are better at their job than like, I don't know, the rest of the media.
: )
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )*Someone* is going to come up with another flimsy "McCain is having an affair/has another character flaw" story in the next couple of months. Will the MSM:
--use the standards it used with the Edwards story to embargo the accusations until McCain actually confesses to whatever it is or equally compelling proof surfaces, or;
--start spreading it around based on little better than rumor, rationalizing it as "well, we don't want to make the same mistake we made with Edwards, right?"
I have my suspicions that it will be the latter, in spades.
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| parent )I thought you approved of Cheney's 1% doctrine, or is it just that you hold the media to a higher standard and don't approve of having that weapon in the media's hands.
FWIW, I doubt anyone but the fringe will try to make an issue of McCain's fidelity. The public record regarding the treatment of his 1st wife is another matter, which is why I don't expect that McCain would be in favor of anyone on the GOP side trying to make much more hay out of the Edwards affair.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent ). . .to help with that, and Obama won't have a friendly court going on a dumpster dive through sealed archives for him this time.
As for media standards, I'd settle for consistency. I seem to remember reading somewhere recently that that is important.
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| parent )Let loose the news hounds at the Enquirer!
Why drag Obama or the 1st Mrs. McCain into this?
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )what disturbs me is the puritanical oh-mying when a politician's private life becomes front page material. I do hope the DNA tests come back in Edwards' favor, so he can sue the living hell out of the Enquirer.
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| parent )Apparently he won't get the chance to prove his innocence -- which I'm sure makes him feel just AWFUL:
Edwards' ex-mistress won't seek paternity test
Ooops! I must've accidentally added the bolded part to the above quote. How clumsy of me.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )The Enquirer will have to prove the child's father is in fact Edwards.
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| parent )Edwards is a public official *and* a public figure, meaning that New York Times Co. v. Sullivan comes into play and proving actual malice is required--a court would never find actual malice now that Edwards has admitted to boinking the woman in question, and with her refusing to establish paternity. That case is D.O.A.
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| parent )This becomes a standard defamation case. Enquirer says Edwards is the father, burden of proof now rests with Enquirer to demonstrate paternity.
This isn't malice. This is defamation per se. If I was Edwards, I'd put a PI on the case, get some of that child's DNA from the house trash, do a private paternity test, then go after the Enquirer if he isn't the daddy.
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| parent )He's a former US Senator who still has pledged delegates to the Democratic convention, and who has frequently been mentioned as a potential Attorney General candidate should Obama win. Compared to the plaintiff in the Sullivan case (a police commissioner in Montgomery, Alabama), he might as well be the President. S.O.L.
Of course, if for some reason the courts saw it differently, Ms. Nice Front Lawn will get a subpoena for a DNA test for the youngster rather quickly.
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| parent )And even Sullivan makes the case that the supposed libel wasn't directed to the aggrieved party by name.
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| parent )But he is the daddy. That's why he's not going to do it.
That's okay though, because God has forgiven him and he sins and prays every day -- and makes clear to mention that very publicly.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )If the photo of him holding the baby were fake that would meet the other criteria that you don't mention... reckless disregard for the truth... and also perhaps malice. I thought the blurriness was really suspicious.
--More Wagster!
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| parent ). . .but the fact that the picture of him holding the baby might be fake wouldn't really speak to the paternity issue--and the implicit claim "he was holding that baby" isn't really damaging--politicians hold babies every day. The fact that proof of paternity is available and not being actively sought is the death knell here (although if there is a lawsuit, the discovery process might drag the reluctant Ms. Three Million Dollar Mansion in to have the rugrat tested and to answer some pointed questions about California real estate).
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| parent ). . .the punchline to your bolded section is:
"We've established what you are--now we're just negotiating price."
Which is apparently three million bucks. I hope for her sake that she's making enough to pay the property taxes on that barn.
Oh well. On the other hand, since he's a public figure he'll have to prove actual malice to win a defamation suit--and without a DNA test to disprove paternity he's S.O.L. on that front. On the bright side, "Daddy" is a way more butch nickname than "Silky Pony"--and Ann Coulter certainly has egg on her face after the revelations of the last week.
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| parent )Phil Bronstein of the San Francisco Chronicle has an editorial titled: Did the MSM drop the ball on John Edwards?
His first paragraph is:
You know, I meant to buy Microsoft stock with that hundred bucks my mom gave me in 1982, but I was tied up.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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)Of the following political figures who cheated on their wives who picked the hottest paramour?
Elliot Spitzer
John McCain
Bill Clinton
John Edwards
I think it's clear that Spitzer wins hands down but the others are less clear.
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)I'd say Cindy McCain in her prime. The Spitzer girl was merely so-so and she was, what, 21?
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )But Senator Larry Craig's choice of a partner would have to be the least hot by a country mile, and that's without ever having even seen a picture of the guy.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )Spitzer doesn't get "credit" for having an affair with a hottie when he paid a call girl!
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )She was hot though!
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| parent )Both my wife and our closest female friend (a formerly avid Edwards supporter who wasted thousands in child support, er campaign donations) have weighed in to me with their opinions. Curiously neither were much concerned with Edwards, which is eerie, almost as if he's already died. I guess a gentleman goes first when his wife is that ill. No, what they both zeroed in on were the old Rielle Hunter interviews and, strangely, her looks.
'Ewwww...what a skank.'
'She said he was "open to new things"... With that disgusting slut? That's just gross.'
'2006? But she was still working for him in 2007.'
'So what was he doing sneaking off to see her again if it was so over?'
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)Or Newt Gingrich's first wife (not attractive enough to be first lady).
I agree 100% about Edwards however there are plenty of Republicans who remain in good standing who have done worse.
--Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.
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| parent )the subject of Monica Lewinsky didn't come up either. Cuz that's more recent news than either of your idee fixees.
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| parent )McCain is currently running for President of these United States. His treatment of his first wife says a bit about his character...which is of "recent" import.
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| parent )they pretty much ignored him during the primaries.
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)Oh, Mr. Edwards? You wouldn't mind submitting to a DNA test to confirm that you're not the father of the child, right? After all, since you've lied on the first question there's no real reason to believe you on the second.
Never let a dying enemy suffer needlessly when you can deliver the coup de grace.
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). . .if I hadn't seen Newt Gingrich's dirty laundry regarding *his* marital situation involving a gravely ill spouse bandied about by countless liberals for well over a decade now. What goes around. . .
Of course, the fact that a professional ambulance chaser will never be President, Vice-President, or Attorney General thanks to this scandal is an unalloyed good, IMO.
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)but McCain deserves closer scrutiny on this same topic.
--Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.
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| parent )any presidential candidate ;)
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| parent )now why does that name remind me of publicizing someone's marital problems?
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )I'm not sympathetic for either of them!
Their families, sure -- but the guys? They can stew in their own karma, for what little it's worth.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )I'm not fond of either man, to be honest--but having established a precedent by beating the dead horse of Gingrich's marital woes for years, I see no reason why Democrats shouldn't "benefit" from it.
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| parent )Come on, Scott -- I think you're awfully soft on Gingrich here.
Here's a question, and not directed just at you or as some kind of zinger:
Is the guy who cheats on his wife but stays married (in that Tony Soprano way) worse or less worse than the guy who cheats on his wife, then abandons her?
In some ways the first guy you can at least describe as somewhat loyal -- but he's also dragging out the pain.
On the other hand divorces can be a pretty healthy thing for both people involved -- but I have to say I don't have much fondness for guys who dump their starter wives at the first opportunity.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent ). . .but IMO the Democrats milked Gingrich's shabby behavior excessively after the fact, making pushback appropriate when the occasion arose. Gingrich left Congress after the 1998 election, and I still see his first wife brought up now and again online. I don't miss Gingrich, and I'm thrilled to see Edwards permanently joining him on the sidelines.
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| parent )which is that the Republicans used "family values" as a stick to beat the democrats with, while the foremost proponents of said values proved to be even scuzzier than the people they were criticizing. Hypocrisy will keep a topic like that in the news for quite a while, eventually becoming a symbol for the hypocrisy of the party as a whole.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )we live in the age of the instant cliche. Just saying that Republicans use it as a stick to beat Democrats with is a stick to beat Republicans with.
Fact is, it's a wonderland out there. Only rabid partisans can keep pretending that the pampered corrupt politicians of both parties aren't busily accosting men in rest rooms or hiring $4 grand a night hookers. Or getting involved in way spookier stuff like Wiccan slave-rape scandals, or bumping off their interns like Gary Condit (oh wait, the hit-man's confession still is discounted by DC police). And of course the tell-all madam's suicide was just that.
Fact is, they're all a bunch of sleazebags. Everybody knows this. Nobody seriously associates either party with "family values" any more. So trying to pretend that Democrats have inherited some kind of moral mantle of virtue won't wash. I think most people who care about the Edwards story enjoy it as good oldfashioned infotainment--I don't think anyone even cares about his party affiliation. Now this is finally out in the open, it can no longer hurt Obama at all--which is the point I was trying to make earlier in the week.
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| parent )that consistently wins elections by making the other guy's character, rather than policy, the focus of their campaigns.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )Sometimes Republicans do it too.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )Reagan = character
Bush I = experience
Bush II = character
McCain = experience
see a pattern?
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I seem to recall the Democrats trying to win an election by leaking word of GWB's old DUI arrest right before the election--it's hardly a tribute to their purity of character that they failed in the effort.
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| parent )http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=218
Another myth dies and an angel gains its wings.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )was running around looking for a reporter to leak his inside knowledge. Connolly was asked a direct question by a reporter who encountered him by chance and volunteered what he knew.
The real story here is that the press had the story much earlier in the campaign but declined to print and Fox picked up on the story once it became obvious the story was about to break in order to get ahead of it and spin it against the media and Democrats.
GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )Lawyers always know decades old case numbers off the top of their heads. Happens every day.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )Connolly prompted by GW's candidacy, made sure he had the case number handy for just such an opportunity as the chance courthouse encounter with Fehlau. However, that doesn't mean what you want it to mean in respect to the supposed perfidy of Democrats. It just means that Connolly resolved that he would be honest and disclose what he knew if a reporter were ever to ask him about the case. I think we can safely assume that had Connolly been a Republican he would likely have resolved to do the exact opposite.
I guess poor George was just unlucky, though he came close to getting away with it. Regardless, Fox did a pretty good job of heading off the story's impact by leading the charge to turn the story against the Democrats, very Rovian.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent ). . ."How con-veen-ient."
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| parent )as reality is.
To avoid a recurrence I'd recommend deleting any Worldnetdaily links from your bookmarks. :)
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )who said the Democrats inherited any mantle, or that politicians aren't generally sleazy? I'm just saying the "holier than thou" attitude is what gave the Gingrich story more legs. It's the same reason a story about a minister having an affair is big news, while a Hollywood star doing the same thing barely merits a mention. Face it, hypocrisy seems to be the only sin anyone is interested in pursuing anymore.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )the 'holier-than-thou' charge could certainly be leveled against Edwards. His political career was a moral more than an issues crusade, as all 'populism' must be. What I'm saying is that I don't hold that against him, and I don't think many of the salacious Enquirer readers do either. That's sort of...90s.
Like this Gingrich dude you guys keep talking about about, whoever he was.
I think hypocrisy is perfectly acceptable nowadays--look at Giuliani and the Clintons. No one's really mad at Edwards for the cheating, the lying, or even the hypocrisy--because those are now normal and typical American behavior. What Enquirer readers are crucifying him for is for putting on such a poor show--first he tried to deny us all the juicy details of his affair(s)--and now he has the nerve to deny us the endless melodrama of the public mea culpas, in short the Jim and Tammy Bakker Show. That's what we want.
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| parent )I'm not particularly interested in personal scandals like this, but I understand that you are. I'll be happy when I don't have to hear about John Edwards anymore, just like I'm glad I don't have to hear about that guy Gingrich any more either. I'm just not interested in the "juicy details" like you are.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I'll believe it when I see Republicans cut loose the 'family values' crowd and forgo the electoral advantage they gain from pandering to them.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )What? I've been gone for a week and this is the best I can say? Must be some kind of obsession or something.
Note to vin: I saw a production of Midsummer Night's Dream yesterday evening at the Tahoe Shakespeare Theater and thought you'd enjoy the modifications the production company made to increase the relevance of that sadly out of date work. The program had a piece from the producer in which he stated that the play is all about climate change. (I am not making this up.) Puck et al were done up as American Indians instead of fairies, sprites and so forth; apparently the producer didn't realize that "Indian palaces" in the original text referred to India and not Anasazi cliff dwellings. Some of the best scenes were marred by a bozo in Hollywood Indian garb playing the same five-note New Age melody on a wooden flute. Despite that, it was a great production, so if anyone is in the Tahoe area between now and mid-September you should consider seeing it. Helena, Puck and Oberon were all very. very good.
My sterling contribution to the dialogue here for the next week.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )especially in this country. Institutionalized standards (through law or social pressure) are the only way to get anything like that done here. This is why I don't (and why you shouldn't) care how much energy Al Gore burns himself.
Gingrich's moral crusade was a much more personal one, so Hank's comment is more appropriate in that case.
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| parent )Gore's message has always been that everyone (particularly energy-hogging Americans) has an individual obligation to reduce their carbon bootprints on mother Gaia. The idea that each of us has to sacrifice permeates his homilies. I estimate that I use 1/30th of the energy that Gore does, meaning I am at least thirty times better than him. And I neither have nor use a private jet, except in the bathtub (which I fill with lukewarm water.)
If you don't see the deep hypocrisy in Gore's holier-than-thou bloviations, you need to look closer. How serious can his Chicken Little preaching be if he won't do anything about it himself?
But seriously, I do feel the social pressure, if that's what you call it, to cut way back on energy use, if for no other reason than that the oil we buy from the Mideast is tainted with other people's blood. The state of Washington published stats showing that if 40 % of households statewide bought just one CFL, it would be equivalent to taking 50,000 cars off of that state's roads. Even I can understand numbers like that.
If, OTOH, someone tried to pass a law trying to force me to conserve, I'd probably go out of my way to circumvent it. I bet there are plenty more stubborn mules where I came from.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )Wasn't Gore's response to the criticisms to improve his house's energy efficiency? That is, even if he was being hypocritical at the time, didn't he quickly change his behavior?
Stick to the original self-deprecation. Obsession is a polite word.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )Yeah but, dude, you live in frickin Hawaii. You can wash up just by walking outside and shaking the dew off some rubber trees. :)
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent ). . .we need an official ruling from you that I am the winner of the much ballyhooed bet between myself and Harley--or that you disagree with Catchy and that the bet is therefore a draw with the commencement of the Beijing Olympiad. This link leads to the incident in question, including a comment with a link to a second infraction, and Catchy's final ruling.
Thanks in advance for your assistance with this exercise, regardless of the outcome. :-)
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| parent )and there's no expectation by serious people that he should be in order to be credible in spreading the message about global warming and to agitate for a sensible solution. I hear Richard Branson lives in a big house and has some wastefully expensive hobbies too. It's likely people like Gore and Branson consume more energy than you because they are more productive than you and fly in private jets because that can maximize their productive potential just like it does for most other people who can afford to use them. Stop hating on Al, buy yourself a tire gauge and get with the program.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )I would think that legislation of that kind is similar to laws that prohibit littering, for example. Another example: recycling everywhere (including one's home) has been mandatory by law in Japan since 1997. What's wrong with measures like those?
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| parent )It also opens the floodgates on McCain's own less than stellar personal life?
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)You can bet your bottom dollar that if the people running the McCain campaign had seen any advantage for McCain in having this story out in the news media earlier, then the Wurlitzer would have been cranked up and it would have happened.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )....I am not happy at all about how Edwards has handled this.
I don't care if he sleeps around....but he'd better know if that child is his or not...seriously.
If it isn't his...what is he doing seeing an old lover who is now married to someone else?
Too strange even for me....and I hear lots of strange stories.
(I didn't think K was right on this....I apologize for doubting him....lol)
Traveller
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)I thought the Enquirer was correct on this one. There's this one, narrow kind of story they get right -- the salacious, documented tale that could turn into real news. They weren't going to lie about pinning Edwards in a hotel bathroom.
And, being a believer in inductive reasoning, I rather suspect that Edwards is still lying -- though in this case he has the shield of saying that he "didn't know at the time" when it's later revealed that the kid is his.
If you look at his full statement there's plenty of wheedling in there:
Classy!
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )That's just all kinds of creepy.
Of course, Elizabeth Edwards could bail her spouse out here with some statement about having assented to his playing around--I really hope she doesn't.
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| parent )That would only bail him out for the last survivors of the 70s swinging era -- for the rest of the country it would make their whole family look freaking creepy!
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent ). . ."dirtbag running around on a terminally ill wife who was helping him run for President" column and move him into the more prosaic "sleazy horndog" category--we've knowingly elected one of *those* President in the last twenty years, after all. He'd still never be able to run for higher office again, but he could continue to deal with people in everyday life without much recrimination.
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| parent )but it doesn't seem to have hurt his career much. Of course he's never had a national media spotlight shined on that particular aspect of his life and Edwards is most certainly going to get that.
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| parent )it's reckless behavior to run a campaign for Prez under those circumstances. He doesn't seem to acknowledge that his enemies would use it against him, or that the fortunes of millions rides on his fate.
--More Wagster!
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| parent )well said. And I really don't care where a politician puts his pecker per se (say that 10 times fast). But your point is spot on.
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| parent )