Obama makes an artful statement and then retreats
the "Stable Iraq" caveat followed by the yelping of his base and it is back to the withdrawal timetable.
Whoever is elected president this fall will face a stabilizing Iraq ( link and link) and an emerging Middle East democracy. An inartful statement here (similar to Truman on Korea) or an inartful action there (a premature withdrawal of Amercians) and poof devastation both domestically and geopolitically.
The stakes are clear but will the yelping prevail?
The title was edited pursuant to a reasonable request.
Update:
Andy notices the progress
but limits his exit scenario (you will need to read the link)to only one and he also fails to note how this was accomplished.
--
“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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Obama makes an artful statement and then retreats
the "Stable Iraq" caveat followed by the yelping of his base and it is back to the withdrawal timetable.
Please provide quote and link re: the "retreat".
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)http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
Now either Maliki can't wait for his country to descend into chaos once again, or he knows something we don't know about the efficacy of a large US troop presence. Either way, more egg for the Presidential visage.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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)because he's just a tool of the Bush Admin? C'mon, whoever that was, fess up - don't make me learn how to use the search function, please.
--Even a dead midget is far from light. - Confucius
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| parent )back here.
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| parent )which is really what security agreements are all about.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )which is the Bush position on the issue.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )then you understand why the timetable isn't relevant.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )you meant 'democracy whose sovereignty the US needn't respect'?
I thought we were there to engender their democratic process, not dismiss the results of said process as 'irrelevant'.
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| parent )for reference. Funny how the conservatives either ignore this list or get all huffy and refuse to discuss it.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)either discussing events out of context, quoting anonymous sources, or simply opinionating without any cite or link. Check them out yourself:
Link.
Link.
Link.
Three strikes and you're out. I had the impression you were vouching for the accuracy of the list you keep posting, but apparently not. The list is the predictable result of a politicized, anti-McCain site linking to other politicized, anti-McCain sites: an echo chamber, where HuffyPost gets quoted as if it were a legitimate and objective news source instead of primal scream therapy for liberals.
I'm no McCain fan, and I have no doubt someone can come up with any number of contradictions in the positions he's taken over the years, the same way it could be done with any other pol who's been in office for more than a year or two. But it will have to be done a lot better than in your link before it's worth a serious response, IMO.
--Even a dead midget is far from light. - Confucius
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| parent )dwelled in the aura of Obama. We were pretty focused on certain issues and we understood where McCain was coming from.
Whereas, well Obama
Hey, who do you think we will target if Obama pursues the Bush Doctrine in Iraq, FISA and Conservative Justices?
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )isn't that he's moving to the center after the primary, it's that he's moving to the right. Mr. Third Term indeed.
I'm not sure who you're referring to as "dwelling in an aura", certainly not me.
But once again, good job avoiding that list, Mr. Waffle Diary!
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )After you spending link (which was an indepth talk about tax policy ), it is the only way I could explain it.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )yes, on the Republican scale that puts John Birch at moderate right and Chuck Hegel at the far left.
Still avoiding those McCain waffles, though! Good job!
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )This is the proper response.
--More Wagster!
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| parent )1. National Security
--2. Federal Judges (guns and child rapists)
3. Tax Policy
4. Free Trade and
5. Multi-faceted energy program
“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )1. More wars
--2. Appeal to emotion
3. Run up the deficit
4. Any agreement that doesn't threaten high income voters
5. Drill, drill, drill
I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )1. Fewer Wars
--2. Straight Talk
3. Cut spending and taxes
4. Getting the people back to work
5. We can only hope.
“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )especially after controlling the government for four years. Even if I agreed with your goals, whatever would make one think that the Republicans will do anything about it? They're playing you for a sucker.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )took control of Congress. I'm still waiting for the Dems to roll out their energy plan (Congressional 06 promise) which will reduce the price of gas.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )did the Dems make to destroy the economy? Please, show your work, as in specific laws passed (over Bush's veto) and how they're to blame for the credit contraction and the popping of the housing bubble.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )they failed to move the Trade Pact with Colombia fwd or and confused raising taxes with an energy policy.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )There is no expected nontrivial effect from any free trade deal with Colombia. You will find no economic study predicting any noticeable effect. Beliefs to the contrary are articles of faith, not fact.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )that you received a $60 haircut prior to your wedding.
Also, you're telling me that an FTA w. dinky Colombia wouldn't have much effect on our 14 trillion $ GDP?
Back to the brainstorming drawing board.
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| parent )I'm sorry, that gets an incomplete. No laws cited, off topic reference to Colombian Trade deal and raising taxes with no examples.
Unless you're arguing that we wouldn't be in the position we are in if the Colombian Trade deal was passed? Good for a laugh, but hardly serious.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Raising taxes sums up the Dems Energy policy nicely.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )and BTW, "cap and trade" which McCain favors is functionally equivalent to a carbon tax.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Unless you're arguing that we wouldn't be in the position we are in if the Colombian Trade deal was passed? Good for a laugh, but hardly serious.
I learned that in a unit on future problem solving in grade school.
This is a new topic, one that hasn't been given a prior moment's thought, and we need a 'safe space' for exploration.
Pls. consider that there were also a lot of D-led Congressional hearings that might have interfered with + stymied the productive capacities of Major League Baseball in the past several yrs.
That mighta hurt payroll #s.
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| parent )which I thought was pretty fair, considering. There may not be any wrong answers in brainstorming, but you do actually have to give some answers to get the ball rolling.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )It's kind of fun to watch conservatives brainstorm on how to blame the D congress for the recession.
If we hash something good out in the diary, someone should shoot a line over to Larry Kudlow.
I mean, failure to pass Latin American FTAs? This is entertaining.
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| parent )Is this the GoP you're referring to?
I know you've got the opinion that we're fighting the current war(s) to avoid larger ones later.
But the track record of failure is manifest re: the other factors you cite.
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| parent )back to work in real jobs,
straight works for me on certain topics
Exactly, "smaller wars are always better than bigger ones", along with "give Iraq back to its people" and the best geopolitcal leverage with respect to Iran is "a succesful democratic Iraq"
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )Because it's certainly no response to the fact that McCain is a waffler himself.
--Of course not!
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| parent )Now what was your position on FISA, just for starters.
If Obama runs with the Bush Doctrine and he is certainly trending that way, I'll be happy for two reasons.
I was correct, whereas you (plural) were just foolish.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )You'd be surprised how easy it is to get thru the day without insulting someone. It's also sorta peaceful. I am filled with sunshine.
Meanwhile, Ambinder makes a good point re Senator Obama:
To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )I'll be more than happy. Obama's affirmation of the Bush Doctrine is fine by me but it will have been Bush's leadership which got us there. Harley, please join me in wishing Bush a job well done.
Obama appears to be all for Bush's efforts with respect to FISA, judges and Iraq given his comments last week. All at the top of my agenda. But the diary also focused on Obama's retreat, er confirming his thumb in the wind effort at strategy.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )You merely listed a set of issues.
I was disappointed by Obama on FISA. Big Deal. I expected to be disappointed, which is why I never worshiped the man. I've certainly been let down by McCain, so no difference there.
Obama won't do the bush doctrine where it matters to me: energy, environment, and the court.
I do expect the national security state to continue to further infringe the Constitution. The forces and trends arrayed are vast and long in the making. They certainly precede bush.
--Of course not!
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| parent )and Obama seeme to be on board with Bush's judges.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )Not to, you know, interject reality into the discussion or anything.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )and Obama seeme to be on board with Bush's judges.
Well, if Obama wins, you will see how little truth there is to that statement as soon as he makes his first appointments.
--Of course not!
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| parent )about recent decisions then.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )Appoint != Consent
--Of course not!
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| parent )Don't know if you saw it, but Kierk. expressed the worry that name-calling degrades the political discourse on the site.
For your consideration: http://theforvm.org/diary/kierkegaard/a-moratorium-name-calling
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)comes to mind. Notwithstanding, waffles will continue as it is both apt and descriptive.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )It is indeed both apt and descriptive of the type of content-free politics you practice.
--Of course not!
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| parent )and actually it has been consistent with respect to liberty, democracy, leverage as well as tolerance.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent ).
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )and what is going on in Iran escapes you.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )Pls. note that MScott and Harley have both committed to not using epithets of any sort in the run-up to the election.
You're bucking a trend that could be positive. Why not give it a try and see if things improve round here? Or at least could I make a personal appeal to have you dial things back significantly? (3 of your last 4 diaries have contained 'waffle'.)
Btw, I don't see this as a posting rules issue, I'm just trying to make a case for what I think the majority of the community would prefer. Thanks for your consideration.
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| parent )where Waffles (or Waffle) will appear.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )and IMO he's setting a nice example: http://theforvm.org/diary/kierkegaard/a-moratorium-name-calling#comment-101196
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| parent ). . .are both currently in compliance with the terms of the bet, Tomsyl hasn't accepted the spot as the other arbitrator on the panel to make it official--should we try to recruit someone else?
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| parent )...as a modern day Mason and Dixon, mapping uncharted territory. WIth better food. And drink. And sports on TV.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )just frickin say 'yes' already.
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| parent ). . .if he doesn't want to do it, it's up to him. An answer one way or another would be helpful, though.
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| parent )Waffles was in response to Mcsame, although Waffles was a fairer description.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )I demand equal opprobrium for my insults.
--More Wagster!
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| parent ).
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )- Login or register to post comments
| parent )and I'm happy to match it.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )- Login or register to post comments
| parent )It already has. Rightly so -- the Bush folks are reaping the whirlwind that follows massive abuses of trust in a working democracy.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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)absolutely, a democratic state as well as leverage over Iran.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )The reality being a Mideast where we've changed precisely nothing at great expense.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )and missed (well the MSM certainly hasn't covered it) what went on in Anbar.
BTW, whatever happened to that civil war ya all were talking about.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )about events in Iraq than the people who decided to terraform that country into a western democracy, but declined to make a plan for what would happen if Iraqis didn't cotton to the idea.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )but a Middle East democracy, yes
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )as apparently monarchies and dictatorships fall under the rubric of "Middle East democracies".
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )my view is it starts with, we the people and goes from there. You apparently have a different viewpoint, er in line with the Soviet definition.
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )just like Jordan and Egypt, right?
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )and its history of democracy
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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| parent )