More Notes on Money: Distingusihing Monies: Socialist and Facist Monopoly Money verus Captialist Money
Isaiah 43:8-13 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the peoples be assembled: who among them declareth this, or causeth us to hear former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified; or let them hear, and say, It is truth. Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am HE: before me there was no *God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, I am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour. It is I that have declared, and have saved, and have shewed, when there was no strange god among you; and ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, that I am *God. Yea, since the day was, I am HE, and there is none that delivereth out of my hand: I will work, and who shall hinder it?
More on the question: What is Money?
If you don't know what money is, how can you speak intelligently on things at least ostensibly founded on money: economies, taxation, saving, debt, start-up capital, simple buying and selling. How can you understand those who partake in such things or yourself as one of them? How can you avoid someone taking all you have while leaving you with nothing you think is something because they say so but have hollowed out the money they hand you from the inside? How can you ever do more than feel-see a political candidate or party platform if you really don't know a thing about what that man or woman is saying when they say "a strong economy" and "tax philosophy"? Everybody is for a "strong economy" the way everybody is for more strength in general than weakness. That doesn't say what it IS. Lack of understanding lets liars get away with lies and perpetuates injustice as a lifestyle.
So what distinguishes the various monies from each other? How does the dollar fundamentally differ from the pound or the lira or the riyal or the yen or the ruble and any words that represented money in the past now long forgotten but taken for granted as if part of everlasting reality in their day? We'll examine a part of reality that will lead to those questions in this post.
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Money is different for different outlooks on life and what is important in life. Money is different for different languages and is in no way "the same thing spelled differently and enunciated differently for some strange reason having to do with where writing and distinct languages came from that is independent of the fundamentals that make money ..money". Money is not a meta over the whole of reality. Some monies work in places others do not, yet none can go further than their particular boundaries.
A common mis-perception that is perpetrated as part of a spiritual, occult operation against any people to enslave them and keep them in the dark is that when a socialist ( hereafter understood to be one form of a monopolist), a fascist monopolist and capitalist says the word money, they all mean the same thing; that monopoly conspiracies and true capitalism somehow all run off the same fuel. They do not in fact run off the same fuel, so they cannot actually sit down at a table and come to a common definition, despite the fact they may wish they could and pretend they already have for what is in their own minds, the common good.
The only money that runs off reality is actual capitalism. Not fake capitalism. Not socialism or fascism merely careful to always call their mistakes the results of "capitalism".
Money of actual capitalism:
- is not an empire unto itself, supposedly able to be a broker between everything. True capitalism recognizes the restrictions where money can go by the grace of God and thus what money is as part of larger whole of life.
- True capitalism takes as its foundation on-going creation by God on a continual basis and counts PART of that creation as being in areas where money can be, to a large extent, unrestrained and real.
Job 38:4,5 ..8-11 Where wast thou when I founded the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding. Who set the measures thereof--if thou knowest? or who stretched a line upon it? ... And who shut up the sea with doors, when it burst forth, issuing out of the womb? When I made the cloud its garment, and thick darkness a swaddling band for it; When I cut out for it my boundary, and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come and no further, and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
Socialist and fascist economics as theories of what money is and can do runs off lies. They run off one fundamental lie that is summed in the word non-creation, even though they are two distinct monies within that one lack of creation.
Lack of creation is a mind that is a spirit; not a mindset or a "ideology". It is a meta-lie of scarcity in the midst of plenty that gives rise to many other lies, such as a lie of what money is and the lie that it can go anywhere in total reality thus seeming to encapsulate all of total reality in that falsely idealized scarcity "for a good cause". In fact, minus the lens on total reality as scarcity, the money of socialist and fascist economics is worthless. Socialism and fascists economics ( aka "the economy of scale run amok" ) absolutely depend on at least the notion of scarcity in the minds of "consuming units" to remain viable at all. ( Thus as the US or any other country progresses more toward monopoly economics ( socialist or fascist) , the currency is less valuable and the markets are more unstable as a rule that is independent of other factors but makes those other factors effect the market in the end. Those other factors would, in the mind of creation and faith that God will always create Enough (that actual capitalists are given by God --Himself), have not effected the market at all. )
Scarcity as a sole backdrop and foundation of money makes money automatically wicked and a lie because it is a denial of God Himself and His creating nature. Money as a means of mere exchanging goods and services is limited to what is legitimate ( no false idealizations of what it is) as restraining where money can go. Where no false idealizations exist, money is worthless there.
An example: Prostitutes.
Every prostitute falsely idealizations themselves to be mere hearts that live off of emotion and food, are in lack of those two at any given time and can exchange the genuine scarcity in total reality of what is individually their own genitalia and heart ( taking advantage of their own unique identity but as if it were a generic 'x' that is universally recognized as a legitimate trade item ( a place where money can go ) ) for that which can then be traded to satisfy what is scarce for themselves. There are those made prostitutes and those who run toward being prostitutes. Minus a lie of what money is there would be no prostitution. No one would be forcing others into it and no one one would be running toward it to "help out with college expenses". Actual money cannot comprehend the uniqueness of every human being that no human being has any capability to get out of or lose, it being given them and maintained by God. The prostitutes and pimps and those who use prostitutes are just as deceived over their own being as they are about money, ( or they could not mix or confound the two) yet routinely speak the words "identity"/"me" and "money" as if they were participating in universals by so doing.
In a purely capitalistic setting, there is no prostitution. Money is limited. What anti-Christ has falsely accused us as new creatures in Jesus Christ of doing is creating an environment where everyone is a "entrepreneur" for its own sake as if equivalent. In reality, prostitution exists side by side with capitalism because of constant attacks by anti-Christ as misrepresentations of reality that gives many ( even from among us as our children. Adam had his Cain..) a lens and agenda of scarcity and leads them to satisfy that false scarcity with real consequences. Socialism and fascism is the result. A leaning toward socialism and fascism as governmental systems as the new common sense follows. When money tries to flow into areas that God has restricted from it, the pretense that is has "worked" anyway always brings famine, death and more scarcity.
American/Western societies in general are never pure. They are a mixed bag at any given instant of capitalism and the mind of false scarcity that is socialism and fascism. Capitalism gets the blame as being the best of all as the others wish to be camouflaged for what they really are: a false scarcity based engine to pump out perpetual famine and death, always consuming what is declared repeatedly to be "scarce"/"limited" resources that are themselves called "natural" resources instead of God given inheritance that God continually adds to as new creation. ( They hate Jesus Christ but they love His results.)
When money seeks to go where it actually does not work, it becomes worthless and makes the merchandise it supposedly buys part of a lie. Thus when money seeks to buy flesh as prostitutes ( whether marriage is used as a cover by either or both parties or not) it degrades the value of money overall, even if done in secret.
Money is a tool of God that was given to man for good and evil. Seeking to exalt money over Man degrades man. Thus man's use of money degrades and money itself becomes worthless. Man is eternal. He will burn in the lake of fire eternally if he is not born again as new creature in Jesus Christ. But money will be burned up and is only a thing of this age.
Those truths are reflected in the common law where God grants grace for capitalism to maintain an edge. Where that law is upheld the people prosper. Where that law is denigrated or corrupted in a mad scramble to satisfy false scarcity ( that is , almost as a rule, imported from outside), the people are denigrated and die. When the people are deceived that the false scarcity is real, they exalt over them a governmental system that is nothing but totalitarianism they are glad for as it represents in their minds a meta as a solidified strength to finally do away with the supposed actually real scarcity. Most of them never understand this one simple truth: you can't do away with what in reality does not exist. In seeking to do so, you destroy yourself and everyone around you in what to you is a no-brainer, common sense approach to supposed real problems of life. You don't wake up from that unless God has mercy on you in the real Jesus Christ.
When socialist or fascist governments come into power, they immediately monopolize everything in an effort to take advantage of economies of scale. ( To some extent things get cheaper the more of them you produce because you can build specialized machines that pump out a lot of them in a short time and the cost go down the more the demand for the product grows over the lifetime of the market for those products because the initial efforts to secure raw materials and labor become understood and can be done minus the initial waste that experimentation causes to produce the product and get it packaged and shipped to the consumer..) . It never works for them. In truth what happens is that a truth for capitalism ( a gift of God) has been turned in the mind of the socialist or fascist into a "natural" resource ( also known in Marxian/communistic/non-creating determinism, as a supposed "law" that mysteriously arises out of a population of free willed beings expressly as a supposed product of the "free" will and therefore non-creating aspect of their being to the exclusion of all else about them..) as a supposed generic thing ( in a denial of Jesus Christ and thus of any new creation at all) that can supposedly be applied by anybody under any circumstance and get the same result. Money can't go there. It never does even though those governments print paper representations of it as if equivalents of capitalistic monies. They are distinct monies from fundamentally distinct areas of reality. The dollar does not equal the riyal or the pound or the yen or the bolivar or any other currency. As socialism or fascism goes up in the US the dollar goes down. It is the same everywhere.
Isaiah 55:1-6 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters; and he that hath no money, come ye, buy, and eat: yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price! Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? Hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. Incline your ear, and come unto me; hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the peoples, a prince and commander to the peoples. Behold, thou shalt call a nation thou knowest not, and a nation that knew not thee shall run unto thee, because of Jehovah thy God, and the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. Seek ye Jehovah while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near.
Isaiah 52:3 For thus saith Jehovah: Ye have sold yourselves for nought, and ye shall be redeemed without money.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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References -

prostitution then there has never been capitalism.
Tell me do you read much on economics, forms of exchange,
history ?, perhaps you could share some of your reading
list with us?.
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)maybe someone could clarify or come up with some cites. What about Native American tribes? Or is it a product of civilisation? I would have thought prostitution is a rather pure form of capitalism.
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| parent )everything about prostitution is pretense and a lie with terrible consequences. I understand that among certain Hindus, prostitution is sacred, etc. So I can see how you might confuse sacred with capitalism given its Calvinistic roots and then unconsciously transfer that via your speech to equating capitalism and prostitution as a kind of humor.
Perhaps the socialist doctrines of the past fifty years have done a good job of falsely idealizing "native american" lifestyles before the colonial era ( in line with the "noble savages" socialists always seek to be..) to this generation of youth, but the reality is that they were already rampant with sexually transmitted diseases, human sacrifice to false gods and the like. Slavery was also a well entrenched social phenomenon. They were well known as an adulterous people despite the fact they may have had actual laws against such.
Their concepts of money were basically the same as the rest of the world, however. All based on free will. They made money out of ground clam shell bits rolled into balls and strung in rows. The exchange was a bit more ceremonious, so God at least had given the wisdom to understand the cumbersome portion of money management is a blessing if even by default.
It turns out I/we are not the sole set of persons questioning what money has become though their base concept seems to
be free will as well.
Proverbs 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )Payment for sex. Prostitution.
Whats false about it, its a service for tradable
means of exchange, be it a Palace in a resort and
half a kingdom or a handfull of US dollars.
The terrible consequences are no more terrible
that for any related act that is not Prostitution,
for example health issues are similar to normal
sex, tax and fraud similar to other financial
transactions.
What printed material or line of philosophy
do you base your arguement upon ?. which version
of the Bible are you using for instance?.
May the Spirits of Air and Water sustain you.
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| parent )is that money is counted as an actual measure of the value of portions of human beings ( their bodies in a combination with their hearts as an act of "sex" ..quite aside from mere pleasure for its won sake at the cost of understanding who and what human beings ARE..). They are demeaned as a creature and thus demean God who created us in supposedly measuring out portions of earth ( gold in past ages, now simply fiat/paper money ) that can supposedly actually measure any portion of human worth.
The LIE is that money is a real anything that measures anything or has an ability to be a measure of anything.
Getting along with the deceptions in Fallen Man's mind as regards issues of fundamental identity and thus money have to do with economics. That lie has been turned to its best ( least evil) use in capitalism. But it is still evil.
Isaiah 30:21,22 And when ye turn to the right hand or when ye turn to the left, thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it. And ye shall defile the silver covering of your graven images, and the gold overlaying of your molten images; thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth: Out! shalt thou say unto it.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )Are you trying to show that native americans were not "noble savages" because they practiced slavery? (Incidentally, the idea of the noble savage was not created by socialists. That idea goes way back to about the time of Conquest itself). Or was it to show that the act of enslaving men was in itself sinful? Europe had been practicing slavery for centuries before they even came in contact with any "noble savages".
And on that note and to address your apparent belief in the inerrancy of the word, perhaps you could comment on St.Pauls rather shocking view of slavery in general.
Ephesians 6:5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )was not speaking to a never-ending social phenomena of slavery as supporting it.
In another place God Says through Paul, as directly making of certain types of slavery anathema:
"1Timothy 1:9,10 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; "
Those who sold themselves into slavery and/or indentured servitude for personal advantage given their prior circumstances are addressed in the passage you quoted as well as those who through political injustice were kept enslaved without ever supporting the politics of injustice as you imply.
You are in error to assume the Scriptures are dead letters that because of their presumed deadness, yet supposedly because they must be rigorously followed in "free will" then become the mere laws of an ideal model of behavior. You are used to speaking to those deceived that they have free will and then have looked at the Scriptures through that lying lens and as such in every way seek to pretend the Scriptures are just idealized "holy info" of what they should do with their "free will" as being a ideal model of behavior. Your questions spring from that same lying lens/spirit on total reality.
As for socialist inventing the notion of the noble savage, socialists never invent anything but copy what they see to produce chaos. I never said socialists invented the lie of the "noble savage". Basic urban environments all over the world did that. They simply use what God has invented and spoken through others to satisfy an emotional need to "do" per their free will as what they see as competitions between notions of ideal models of behavior.
Their notions of money and "what it ought to be spent on" then follow that same lying lens.
This is not the sayings of a proud man who seeks to do his own ideal model of behavior, but of a broken man and new creature in Jesus Christ who came from the same mindset as socialists seek to worship and set up as governance:
1Timothy 1:12-17 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
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| parent )On your account, as a Christian, whether one is capitalist or not should not make a particular difference to one's situation with regard to the eternal life - which is, after all, the point of being a Christian. What, then, is the point of your argument? In any case, the ideal Christian, namely Jesus Christ, did not, as far as I know, did not specify either the need or the necessity to be a capitalist ( or a fascist or socialist, for that matter) - he seems to have said plenty of other things that were important to enter the kingdom of heaven. So why this emphasis on an economic doctrine?
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| parent )you have made is the assumption Jesus Christ never spoke on economic doctrine and as being Creating Speech/Word of God.
To wit:
Luke 16:1-15 And he said also to his disciples, There was a certain rich man who had a steward, and he was accused to him as wasting his goods. And having called him, he said to him, What is this that I hear of thee? give the reckoning of thy stewardship, for thou canst be no longer steward. And the steward said within himself, What shall I do; for my lord is taking the stewardship from me? I am not able to dig; I am ashamed to beg. I know what I will do, that when I shall have been removed from the stewardship I may be received into their houses. And having called to him each one of the debtors of his own lord, he said to the first, How much owest thou to my lord? And he said, A hundred baths of oil. And he said to him, Take thy writing and sit down quickly and write fifty. Then he said to another, And thou, how much dost thou owe? And he said, A hundred cors of wheat. And he says to him, Take thy writing and write eighty. And the lord praised the unrighteous steward because he had done prudently. For the sons of this world are, for their own generation, more prudent than the sons of light. And *I* say to you, Make to yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness, that when it fails ye may be received into the eternal tabernacles. He that is faithful in the least is faithful also in much; and he that is unrighteous in the least is unrighteous also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who shall entrust to you the true? and if ye have not been faithful in that which is another's, who shall give to you your own? No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and will love the other, or he will cleave to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things, and mocked him. And he said to them, *Ye* are they who justify themselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what amongst men is highly thought of is an abomination before God.
God has directly said we are stewards of what is His and He through us will do wisely with what is His and in such a way as to bless those in debt and those who have wealth in the old system. God has made the good and the evil and caused a war between good and evil. Money is part of that war. He has commanded we play a part in that war as part of our lives new creatures in Jesus Christ.
If you clinked on the link of the last comment given you, you would see that it is a link to a scientologist group who seeks to "reform money". Making a metaphor: If you knew even half the extent of the wickedness of Scientology and if you thought of a new definition of money as a winner take all proposition ( it isn't because of keeping in place many different distinctions locally rather than seeking a global definition) like getting to the North Pole first, you would grow wings and fly to get there before you would let a scientologist dictate to you what money is rather than mock those who are already in the effort to stop them.
There was a time when there was an old guard who stood watch over the money and its definition to protect the people who had neither the time or inclination to get involved in that. That is day is long past. They have been so corrupted so long that they will reach back to only a few lies ago to feel conservative and still fail to protect the people.
And if they say to you "you're trying to pull the rug out from under us?" What rug? They said their socialist and fascist lies were the bedrock of reality.
There are some spirits who see conversations as knife fights. I hope they don't come here and God through us genuinely does some real work for the profit of all. But if they do, for us, God has already answered that in something you may not know He said as well about military doctrine. Notice the reference to paper money/letters of credit ( scrip ) versus a purse of non-paper money AND paper money:
Luke 22:35-38 And he said to them, When I sent you without purse and scrip and sandals, did ye lack anything? And they said, Nothing. He said therefore to them, But now he that has a purse let him take it ,in like manner also a scrip, and he that has none let him sell his garment and buy a sword; for I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned with the lawless: for also the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold here are two swords. And he said to them, It is enough.
Those who are lying to you about Who Jesus Christ actually Is and what He Said? They are the same who have every interest in the old definition of money and have literally thought of your soul as worthless because of that definition expanding into areas it had no business and it lacking veracity because of its trespass. On top of that they gave you an emotional response set to make you like them as they did it.
Mark 3:23-30 And having called them to him , he said to them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom has become divided against itself, that kingdom cannot subsist. And if a house has become divided against itself, that house cannot subsist. And if Satan rise up against himself, and is divided, he cannot subsist, but has an end. But no one can, having entered into his house, plunder the goods of the strong man unless he first bind the strong man , and then he will plunder his house. Verily I say unto you, that all sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and all the injurious speeches with which they may speak injuriously; but whosoever shall speak injuriously against the Holy Spirit, to eternity has no forgiveness; but lies under the guilt of an everlasting sin; --because they said, He has an unclean spirit.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )capitalism (or any other economic process), specifically.
From my reading of the Bible, the economic activity described in it appear to be trading and agriculture, neither of which were capitalist activities in pre-industrial societies.
If you widen the definition of capitalism to include pre-industrial trading and agriculture then the definition becomes so wide as to become empty of significant content.
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| parent )Timothy's quoting the famous parable of "talents," one of Jesus' stories about servants and their relations to their Master. The "good servant" in this case takes the capital funds left him by his master, invests them, and earns a tenfold return. It isn't explained how he makes the money, but one can safely assume capital investment if not actual capitalist production (does he buy a factory and underpay his workers? or does he simply buy an ox and work his butt off to make a lot more money (i.e. underpay himself)?). Anyhow it's one of the key passages undergirding the so-called "Protestant work-ethic," and an extremely interesting and problematic piece of scripture. FWIW here's the parable:
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )he wouldn't because your link doesn't work.
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )the address itself:
http://www.monetaryreform.org/moneytextbook/New_Money_Text_Book001.htm
??
John 11:35 Jesus wept.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )reading list.
No I won't get into that. I don't read economics books. I don't read what modern authors have to say about history. Everything you read here is original and yet has ties to the past because it is truth. You might find some of it in a book. But at best that would be an older library public schools would find offensive.
Do you see those that do brag of reading lists looking for a new definition of money? or do you see them assuming the present definition is just too big to handle and go from it as a falsely idealized sure foundation and starting point? Their books put them in that state.
What is considered a/the standard reading list is written by those ( in this era) who will be disenfranchised with the new definition of money. Why then would I read their play books seeing their supposed genius and view of history has gotten us to where we are now? In effect, they are the wise men of the Mayas or Aztecs who lead their civilizations to ruin, the whole time being honored as great teachers when all they ever had was non-creating speech. All their books on economics take as a given the free will of man and yet leave out that the lie of free will is part of a multi-stage process at destabilizing whole nations and covering it with what appears to be super-productivity based on the hope of the people not in Jesus Christ, but in themselves as being able to outwit each other and disaster. Their pride is used against them and yet constantly upheld in their eyes by such books and methods.
If we're coming up with a new definition of money, such that we have to investigate what money has been and is now to avoid its pitfalls, and yet have to come up with a NEW definition, how can you map out a course to something no one has ever seen or understood ..in advance ..so as to mandate how to get there by reading books on what will be no longer extant if God blesses us with success?
Most people live the results of what money is now. They don't read about it. We already know it. So do you. But perhaps you are well read in those books or even an author ( your speech certainly is..) and can share some fundamentals of what the old money actually is that I and others have actually missed so that we don't repeat them.
You will recall I asked for help. So far the discussion has centered, when it was on-subject, about the money of the past and present, its weaknesses and how it is and was being used..what it is doing and why. Perhaps you have more to add.
Any work-in-progress needs fresh ideas, with the emphasis on fresh, not re-hashed.
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for a start you might want to take a look at the early pilgrims without being misled they were perfect or that they were an archtypical evil person who did emotional all wrong, knew it and loved to do so and whose understanding ought to be fled from on that basis.
virtually no crime and an expanding growing populace and economy after the initial persecutions of the Pilgrims..
only when that was mixed with the best honesty of a massive wave of criminals from the old world and their families (the new world was used much the same as Australia was as a dumping ground for undesirables from England..) was money spread into areas that were formerly strictly prohibited. So much so that many seek to equate spreading money to areas where it should not be legitimate as "an American tradition". Drug running, prostitution and human trafficking has replaced more open forms of slavery, rum running, moonshine running, while gambling has always stayed. These things did not happen "naturally" but were overt attacks on the United States by outside elements ..to this day as seeding the lie that money is the same no matter what it is buying and that nothing has happened when money strays into areas from which it has been prohibited. In effect a huge forgery of an real and true economy has been going on with one standard dollar providing cover because it "spends the same" in the open. That quality of the money has been used to subvert masses of people by holding up money as more valuable than people and that gaining money by any means is legitimate --in the eyes of other people so deceived -- and money, the whole time, says nothing but yes.
That same money has also been an equalizer in good ways. It hasn't been all bad. But it is an easy thing to see that when paper money was first introduced, a lot of somebodys had this very conversation for many years. While gold itself is simply another form of representation of attempts at controlling scarcity, and holding forth scarcity as supposedly turning it to a good use, you can't just print gold whenever you want. So you don't have to withhold and then pump gold into an economy as you have to do with paper. Gold is to some extent self-regulating based on its actual scarcity in nature and thus is immune to corrupting the procedures and persons who pump in and then withhold paper money.
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You should read up on vampire bats and leeches...creatures God has made that take your blood while you are completely unaware of it because they have secretions that deaden the warning system of your nerves ..and then realize there are other living creatures that do that same that have their appearance as will-neutral ideas that please you or are a kind of emotion-neutral foundation for civilization. Getting them off is not enough. You have to replace the blood they sucked out and be cured of the diseases they instilled ...without any free will on their part to do so ..or yours.
I'm not entitled to my own set of facts. Neither are you or the people who were used to distort history and money. You act as if they had no illusions, no leeches, simply because they are dead.
Again. Pardon me. Verbosity is apparently my disfigurement as I hold the conversation to the subject at hand. God shows me some of my own leeches I never heard of in the process. Don't think I'm not thankful for your post. And don't think I have ever lied to you.
Even once.
specifically of prostitutes and capitalism: prostitution is a product of a worship of money for its own sake when it is not forced on some. What you have been taught since birth ( and have read books that assume and teach the same) to regard as "capitalism" as one big monolith is in fact a heterogeneous boiling mix of socialism, feudalism, and fascism with some elements of capitalism retained to get the blame as a cover for the others in the midst of absolute denial that sin even exists at all and that the others were absolute failures wherever they were dominate and understood to be what they really are: particular takes on the lie of free will as if it were not a lie.
Just as over a century ago many Methodist preacher's sermons ended with "..and that's why Calvinism can't be true." so your own life has been filled with an equally vicious and lying assault on capitalism because the former assault on Calvinism had failed. The influx of criminals in the past has been assimilated by the reality that they never had free will and the common sense from whence they came was a lie. That's why that common sense didn't work back there or here. It doesn't work anywhere. THAT understanding was and is the freedom God doled/s out through America. Those who seek the demise of America have entrenched a lie of free will to meet the new criminals to make it seem the common sense from home is welcoming them here as well.
Psalm 49:13 This their way is their folly, yet they that come after them delight in their sayings. Selah
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )its just that I have never heard 'money' described as
you put it and was wondering where I might find a more
rounded description of what you are trying to say.
You are trying to say something, arent you?.
"prostitution is a product of a worship of money for its own sake" - no, its a very real need for means of
exchange for food, shelter, childrens shoes, or
narcotics and these needs motivate people to work they would not normally choose if they had any other available income.
I did not realise that God was a special friend of
America (is that North America or South or both ?), I
had thought he was a special friend of the Jews, and
the followers of Mohammed and the Christians, even
poor old Calvin, and Hobbs.
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| parent )Without the aid of those sinful indigenous Americans your Calvinist pilgrims would not have even lasted the first winter.
The Aztecs did not have men in esteemed positions that "led their civilization to ruin" wise or otherwise (heh!). Hernan Cortez simply took advantage of the power struggles between the Aztecs and local tribes that enabled him to amass more than two hundred thousand allied indian warriors mostly from the neighboring town of Taxcala. And please understand that the Aztecs and the Taxcalans were essential the same culture. They spoke the same language, worshiped the same gods and, yes, practiced human sacrifice on a huge scale. I say this to point out that their "sinfulness" in your eyes was about the same. Yet one succeeded and the other did not...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )disingenuous of you. If we have not given you any fresh ideas it is because we have not figured out what you are trying to say.
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )for something none of us have ever seen, how am I going to describe it to you so you can say "there it is"?
On a certain level it is a self-restricting conversation. It is not as if you can take "masterpiece class" and write a real masterpiece. You can't come up with the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence by relying on the past.
I may erroneously take it as a given you believe you have free will. But at a minimum you could idealize what a new money ought to be able to do and how to restrict it so as to keep away what are now understood to be harmful effects of an unrestricted money. At a minimum that process will take us through why the present money has got us to where we are now both economically and crime wise. It will lead to an understanding that doesn't let criminals get away with theft guised as legitimate economic theories who may offer scholarships to those they falsely idealize as poor to go learn their lies.
The more this progresses, ideally, we'd have people from other countries wanting a say because currency markets will be effected. Which at a minimum would reveal the distinctions of various monies in the world that have at least sequestered some ill effects and we can learn from them.
I think it is both a dig deep and find the real history of money and crime process and a process that requires God to do it. God can act through whom He wills. He is a lot bigger than me. I have faith He will speak through you whether you do or not.
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Do we need a non-exchangable currency to avoid the pitfalls of globalization? What ARE the pitfalls of globalization?
One is that locally distinct monies are a way of keeping one group of people away from another as a functional fence. In seeking to do away with distinct monies, the New World Order is seeking a dynasty over what is now a diverse group of persons that have been maintained in independence based in part on what they consider money.
We need a money that literaly can't work for crime --in a JUST society. ( realizing that that is exactly what the anti-Christ will take advantage of as writing and enforcing unjust laws and gaining control via the money...)
We need a money that instills no love of itself in those who use it. We need a cumbersome buy-sell process kept so to stay away from a love of the process of buying and selling for its own sake.
We need a certain portion of the population on the whole earth who won't recognize any money as valuable so that they survive the machinations of the anti-Christ ( or criminals if you don't believe any such thing exists as anti-Christ) via money. We need to plan and pray for their success in those times. He/them won't let anyone buy or sell minus his mark/permission. To them/us, that will be "so what?"
In the midst of that, we need a stimulus to actually perform necessary infrastructure updates that works for both those who know there is no free will and those fully deceived it exist and they can't get rid of it even if they wanted to. We need more domestic refineries that aren't being built because of the economic advantage with the present definition of money that prohibits their being built aside from environmental nonsense.
Look at the problems in which you have some experience and knowledge or insight and looking from the bottom up from an economics perspective and see how tweaking the definition of money or completely starting over (rather than taking for granted it is impossible..) will alleviate those issues.
??
Proverbs 28:2 By the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof; but by a man of understanding and of knowledge, its stability is prolonged.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )I thought we only had access to "non-creating speech", then you talk about "creating a masterpiece". Can one create with speech or not? You say the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution weren't based on the past, yet that would mean that they were new creations when written. How is that not "creating speech"?
Besides, this is all besides the point. As other people here keep pointing out, all the problems you attribute to money have nothing to do with money itself, only with the way people think and behave towards it. The source of your problem is the human condition, not economics.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )something about rendering with respect to God as compared mortal leadership?
--“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
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)Yet it also says:
Eph 5:10-14 proving what is agreeable to the Lord; and do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather also reprove them , for the things that are done by them in secret it is shameful even to say. But all things having their true character exposed by the light are made manifest; for that which makes everything manifest is light. Wherefore he says, Wake up, thou that sleepest, and arise up from among the dead, and the Christ shall shine upon thee.
and of merely giving a falsely idealized honor to the "office" as opposed to the "person", no matter who is holding the "office" or what they do or say God Says:
Proverbs 14:6,7 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and there is none for him ; but knowledge is easy unto the intelligent. Go from the presence of a foolish man, in whom thou perceivest not the lips of knowledge.
and
Proverbs 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction which causeth to stray from the words of knowledge.
It does not say "keep listening for traditions sake or honoring the aged or young or an office holder for its own sake." No divine right of office holders who lie.
Would you recommend the world worship Satan because God said he is wise and a legitimate lord over a real domain? God is doing away with a real wisdom Satan had. It wasn't fake. But it he used it to lie.
Ephesians 6:10-13 For the rest, brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the might of his strength. Put on the panoply of God, that ye may be able to stand against the artifices of the devil: because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies. For this reason take to you the panoply of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having accomplished all things, to stand.
I know those who are Scripture twisters very well. But I have delivered from them and their speech. I have a creating command from God to overthrow lies and those who propagate them regardless of their being actual lords set up by God. So do you.
God is not at all an idea that gets paid. He is actually real.
1Timothy 1:5-11 But the end of what is enjoined is love out of a pure heart and a good conscience and unfeigned faith; which things some having missed, have turned aside to vain discourse, desiring to be law-teachers, not understanding either what they say or concerning what they so strenuously affirm. Now we know that the law is good if any one uses it lawfully, knowing this, that law has not its application to a righteous person, but to the lawless and insubordinate, to the impious and sinful, to the unholy and profane, to smiters of fathers and smiters of mothers; to murderers, fornicators, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers; and if any other thing is opposed to sound teaching, according to the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God, with which *I* have been entrusted.
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In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )....a half a pound of rice, (if you can find it)
Money is important...even intellectually as a concept, because that is, after all, the only thing money is.
Traveller
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)The guy in the picture is laughing at the notion he has 10,000,000 of anything. How would you make him ashamed to have even laughed at all, but instead to rejoice at his good fortune and not be deceived?
How would you stabilize a hyper-inflated currency? ..make it actually worth what the mere speech of the hopeful printers and UN desire?
The traditional approach is to idealize money as an independent construct as a functional force of nature both outside and inside the "free" will and all of it in non-creating speech and thus linked with scarcity. ...Print more money to "grow the economy". ...Withhold newly printed money to make it more scarce and thus implied to be valuable as a pure function of scarcity to retain the public confidence in that printed and spoken form. Outside the individual's will that is idealized to be free are others over whom he or she has no control ( thus their idealization is that they are free from each other ( that's the supposed "good part" of the lie of free will...)) who have free will as well per the lie of free will. Inside is the individual ...per the lie of free will. (non-creating speech through Marx ( and Hitler and Mussolini and Mao and Pol Pot and now Ahmenajab, Chavez and others..) tried to overcome that barrier between them via a widget called "the public free will" ( individuals falsely idealized to be mere parts of a collective and thus have no "recognizable" unique identity other than they have "free" will.. ) that doesn't work either no matter what false religion you run through as a black box to get a stabilization effect. You'll recognize their voice any time you hear the phrase "pooling our individual sovereignty" or "pooling our national sovereignties" for some desired effect..)
How is everyone ( ..who believes their will is free. Those moves don't work on those who know they don't and never had free will ) at the same time to be made to suddenly decide that their will has been handed an offer it shouldn't refuse?
All they have is non-creating speech and thus a ( false but real) common sense that cannot be overlooked for its sheer veracity as their best honesty as scarcity. How can they be brought to see that their idealized scarcity can be alleviated per a mere new print of the same old concept of money? The very concept of free will that gives them pride as a functional definition of individuality prohibits any collective benefit from that idealized freedom; prohibits a GUARANTEE of cooperation among the populace of those deceived they have free will. You never know what the other person is going to do with their "free" will in any given instant. Minus that guarantee, the money is worthless. If you give up actual goods or services for it, you know you will be scammed.
That assumes of course someone isn't de-stabilizing currencies for other purposes. (possibly to instill as a new common sense the lie that money is a monolithic thing merely pronounced and spelled differently per ethnic or geographic region and so it would be of advantage to just skip the old distinctions and get on with One Big Money openly identified as such and controlled by a few elites. Can you say "New World Order?") It is very obvious that both the current definition of money and the individual's who suffer under that construct have been plotted against far in advance of any loss of value of the currency they had. They first had to be taught to see free will as THE de facto sole arbiter of "gaining" personal uniqueness as if personal uniqueness could be bought and sold and they did not have it already from God. Later on they were shown what items to collect as a functional ceremony to "keep and build" the identity they had "gained", money being chief among them.
But if you want, forget all that and just solve currency stabilization issues among clan and tribe based civilizations with non-creating speech and freedom of will. Or gain the sight for yourselves, somehow on who is going around destabilizing currencies and why and how.
Because they have been coming for you for a long time now with those same moves they put on Africa and Central and South America. That could be you in that picture a few years from now holding up a 10,000,000 dollar bill.
Jeremiah 13:15-18 Hear ye, and give ear, be not lifted up; for Jehovah hath spoken. Give glory to Jehovah your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the mountains of twilight; and ye shall look for light, but he will turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness. And if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because Jehovah's flock is gone into captivity. Say unto the king and to the queen: Humble yourselves, sit down low; for from your heads shall come down the crown of your magnificence.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )"...within one larger lie shared by all false religion ( to include false Christianity) : non-creating speech. (If you wonder what non-creating speech is then do this: create something out of nothing as an act of speech. I know and you know that neither you nor I can do that regardless of what regional or ethnic version of speech in which we may be tempted to make the attempt."
Since you nor I can create something out of nothing then we must both be using non-creating speech. What differentiates this from, say, creating speech? Which I assuming only God can use.
I am now creating(in my own mind and saying it out loud) an image of a yellow bus. What do I win?!
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )but God through you can create whatever He wishes. That would be the part involving an actual change of being because you heard God's voice and on hearing God's voice, God entered you and lives in you and will speak out through you --and create other new creatures in Jesus Christ , other things as well and you/we don't control that process at all.
Any incredulity you may have about God being His Word and being Creating Speech is based solely on your experience with non-creating speech and the assumption that it was all there was in total reality.
God Says he makes no sense to those to whom He has not revealed Himself on that very basis:
Notice the verse says "cannot know". It does not say "will not know." All that is required to know is to hear Him.
1Corinthians 2:12-16 But *we* have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we may know the things which have been freely given to us of God: which also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, communicating spiritual things by spiritual means . But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned; but the spiritual discerns all things, and *he* is discerned of no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, who shall instruct him? But *we* have the mind of Christ.
Psalm 50:7 Hear, my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify unto thee: I am God, thy God.
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen
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| parent )The reason that neither I nor anyone else on this forvm can understand what you are trying to say is because:
God has not revealed himself to us
God has revealed himself to you (and you are therefore more enlightened than the rest of us) and you and God now speak the same language.
Or, you have a high propensity for run-on sentences.
Case and Point:
"Any incredulity you may have about God being His Word and being Creating Speech is based solely on your experience with non-creating speech and the assumption that it was all there was in total reality".
My version:
"Any incredulity you may have about God being His Word and being Creating Speech is based solely on your experience with non-creating speech"(period)
Next sentence:
"The assumption that it was all there was in total reality"
This sentence does not make sense. I have no idea what you're referring to. What assumption? What is **it** referring to in that last sentence. What do you mean by total reality? Reality with or with out God?
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )and tribes, and religions, and families, and just about everything that matters to us, and probably even what we think of as the "self". In other words, that's a pretty misleading "only". :)
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )you're needed over here...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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)I got down to the prostitution bit and gave up. I can't make heads or tails of it; he's either brilliant beyond all imagining or out of his frickin' mind. :^)
--The ultimate result of shielding man from the effects of folly is to people the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
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| parent ).
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| parent ).
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )