Kerry insults the intelligence of all soldiers serving in Iraq
Just when I thought John Kerry could no longer surprise me with his public statements, I saw this astounding video. Rather than give you my opinion, I ask for yours. John McCain has already gone on record with his reaction.
Are these the voices of our dead friends, or just the gramophone? -George Seferis
--
Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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References
whatever you think of John Kerry and the hullabaloo over what he said, this is pretty funny.
--"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta
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)And, you got there first.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )Before posting. Heh.
--The Jingoist
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| parent )Who will be blamed the most
1. Karl Rove
--2. John Kerry
3. The staffer who forgot to give Kerry his tim-foil hat to keep the Rovian mind-control rays out
4. The genius that thought John Kerry would be useful on the campaign trail
Will crush dissent for food
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)You need to pick up a newspaper or something, man. This thing you are talking about, it's not going to happen.
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| parent )we ALL could use a TIM-foil hat around here or at least a TIM-proof hat!
interesting side note: did you know that after someone responds to your comment that you can no longer edit your typos.... :)
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )I was wondering why the edit option goes away. I figured there was some time limit.
--Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.
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| parent )It's kind of cool...sorta' your own personal blam stick. With limited scope obviously. Take that troika...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )Rove! Also an Unforgiving God Who Has Clearly Abandoned His Creation. But mostly Rove.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )It could have been solved so simply. He could have just said: "Sorry, I misspoke. It's a habit I picked up on my last campaign" or some other self-deprecating comment that compared his ability to mangle words to Bush's. Instead we get this ham-fisted attempt to straighten every thing out by declaring he's gonna fight. What a maroon. The Dems need to pull a Castanza, ask 'What would John do' and then do the exact opposite. They would become an unstoppable electoral force almost overnight.
And from where I'm sitting, it's a God who has a wicked fun sense of humor.
--Will crush dissent for food
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| parent )No matter what Kerry said the Republicans would have been outraged, outraged I tell you.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )Between some idiot republican full of fake outrage and John Kerry cracking an effective joke that the whole thing was silly would've stopped the outrage in it's tracks.
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| parent )....it is not real in the first place. Kerry made a monumentally stupid mistake and the Republicans are going to capitalize on that no matter what John Kerry has to say about it. If Kerry apologized then the Repubs would have found something wrong with his apology.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )Where Kerry really blew it, wasn't the original misbespokenitude, but it in his arrogant, "I won't apologize to anybody!" act. IF he'd done the simple, "How embarrassing, what a terrible thing to say, totally my fault and I'm very sorry." The outrage, faux or otherwise, would have backfired and the story would have died last night.
Instead the soundbites this morning were in this order:
Dumb thing said
Outraged responses
I won't apologize
IOW, it wasn't the original mistake that gives it legs.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )Do you think for a minute that the WH or the RNC would be satisfied with an apology? Kerry actually has already apologized and the WH says it "didn't pass muster" and the rest of the Republican attack dogs are still jumping up and down about how Kerry hates the troops with every fiber of his being and if his heart were a cannon he would fire it at the troops and he probably has American flags on his toilet paper and how every Democrat in the Democrat Party is just like Kerry and they are going to surrender to the terrorists in Mecca on July 4th if they get control of the House and/or Senate, and every American citizen will have to experiment on unborn babies with our same sex spouses if Nancy Pelosi becomes Speaker of the House.
Can we all stop pretending that Kerry can do anything to fix this? He gave the Repubs an opportunity and they are going to try to ride it as long as they can.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent ). . .rather than having his staff moonbat issue a frothing attack on his website--and following up with more defiance later--might have done some good. Apologizing on Don Imus after a day of withering criticism looks about as sincere as a testimonial for Donovan McNabb delivered by T.O. At this point, you're right--he's screwed, and the best bet for the Democrats is to treat him as if he's got leprosy and move on.
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| parent )That he gave them an opportunity and that they intend to ride it as far as possible are both so obvious as to go without saying. What else do you do with an opportunity?
That said, the degree to which it can be ridden depends in some measure on his reactions, and he's been pretty dopey about reacting. There are better and worse ways to handle damage control after a gaffe.
---“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009
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| parent )The Republicans deserve more credit than you are giving them. They are masters at playing the press and demonizing their opponents.
Tell me what John Kerry should have said and I will tell you how the Republicans would have reacted in order to keep the story in the news.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )can I play this game? Its fun to play Rush Limbaugh.
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| parent )He can't now do anything to fix it. I was just saying why he un-necessarily gave it oxygen.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )that is taking place, and would have given Harold Ford and other Dems in tight races cover to stick with him.
Where are Repubs supposed to go after Kerry compares his ability to speak with Bush in a lighthearted manner? Say that Kerry is much smarter than Bush so he couldn't have made the same mistake? It would have turned into 'Dueling malaprops', and pushed the original story out of the news cycle until no one remembered why we were arguing about who was the bigger dolt.
--Will crush dissent for food
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| parent )Also, how much longer is this going to be in the news? My guess is we will not hear much about it after tonight's news casts.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )Kerry's schedule has mysteriously opened up, kinda like the hot chick with a huge cold sore.
The Dems running from his comments and fighting attitude are what the Repubs are pushing as the story. That isn't gonna clear up anytime soon. Harold Ford and John Tester have come out against Kerry's fighting response. Now the Repubs get to run around the country asking every Dem to distance themselves publicly from Kerry. Anyone that tries to finesse the answer is gonna give the story more legs. Right now, the only way for this story to get out of the news by the weekend is to have the entire Dem party form a line and individually kick Kerry in the groin on pay-per view.
It may not be 'fair' or 'meaningful', but for the side that was yelling 'Macaca' until they were blue in the face not too long ago there is a certain karmic feel in the air.
--Will crush dissent for food
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| parent )Kerry's schedule has mysteriously opened up, kinda like the hot chick with a huge cold sore.
It may not be 'fair' or 'meaningful', but for the side that was yelling 'Macaca' until they were blue in the face not too long ago there is a certain karmic feel in the air.
This illustrates my point pretty well. The reaction from the Right has nothing to do with what Kerry actually said. Repubs think the junior Senator from MA's dumb mistake can help them and some see it as revenge for some Dems attacks. It wouldn't matter to these people if Kerry got on his knees and begged for forgiveness, they will still weild his mistake like a club for as long as it suits them and as long as they can.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )we are saying the same thing. I think you fail to appreciate that a non-fighting answer would have limited how long they could have used the issue as a club. It would have been a one day story, especially since Bush couldn't continue to pile on once Kerry made the comparison between the two of them.
--Will crush dissent for food
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| parent )How long will the story last? (Fox and Drudge don't count.) I'm guessing it will be mentioned on the Sunday shows, but probably as it is mentioned in today's LA Times -- as part of the rough/tumble last week of the campaign. It's a godsend for the GOP -- thanks, Sen. Kerry -- but again, it's hard to figure out whose election prospects it actually hinders. Unless this stirs up the base enuf to get more of them to vote than was expected.
My second guess is that tomsyl will be defending himself long after the MSM has moved on to more fertile ground. Heh.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )You could've just as easily said G. W. Bush.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )in the groin would motivate the base, but I'm not sure how it would help them move beyone Kerry's mouth.
--Will crush dissent for food
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| parent )"John Kerry is awful, and anything we can do further to degrade his political prospects is worth doing. But really, I saw a clip of him making the much-deplored remark, and it was obvious that the dimwit in Iraq that he referred to was George W. Bush, not the American soldier. It was a dumb joke badly delivered, but his meaning was plain. My pleasure in watching JK squirm is just as great as any other conservative's, but something is owed to honesty. There's a lot of fake outrage going round here."
- John Derbyshire, NRO
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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)Kerry: "Yesterday, I was in the state of Texas. As you all know, President Bush used to live there. Now he lives in a state of denial, a state of deception. I'm glad to be here with you. I really am. Thank you for the privilege of coming here. We're here to talk about education, but I want to say something before. You know, education, if you make the most of it, study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
As I said, it's clear to me that this part of the speech was pile on Bush, not pile on the troops. But the echo chamber sees a slim chance to salvage the election, and it's All Hands on Deck.
--The purpose of torture is torture. —Orwell
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)"If you don't study and aren't smart, you get to beat me in an election and become President of the United States." Good 'un.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )If you don't study and aren't smart, you get to beat me in an election and become President of the United States and then lead us to a quagmire in Iraq where thousands die and we lose."
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )as well as the Congressional support.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent ). . .is further proof of how GWB's greatest strength as a politician is his baffling ability to cause his opponents to go into frothing fits that cause them to metaphorically shoot themselves in the groin, reload, and take off a leg for good measure.
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| parent )http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIm28_5e1zI
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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)Kerry didn't call the military stupid; he called George stupid.
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| parent )Whether he meant to is another question, but word to the wise: Don't muff your lines a week before an election. :^)
---“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009
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| parent )He was talking about bush. It's clear if you see a longer version. The "you" was bush.
Much Ado About Nothing.
Plus, you know, he ain't running for presnit no more.
I think you guys aren't going to lose both houses, and probably won't even lose the House, but it is becoming ever clearer to me that the GOP as a political force is way past it's prime. The administration is spent; the ideology rings hollow. It's only about the machine now, and this is a sample of what the machine does: it lies.
It does it very well.
--My country, right or wrong is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying... It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.' -Chesterton
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| parent )....digusting worship of weakness than is Modern Progressivism? I hope not......
---“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009
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| parent )Question: Who worshiped strength during World War II? Who worshiped democracy? Who won?
Live by the sword, die by the sword. It's a stupid way to die.
--My country, right or wrong is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying... It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.' -Chesterton
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| parent )TTT
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent ). . .worshipping strength and not having contempt for it. The US certainly didn't win WWII by rejecting strength as evil--they used the strength made available by a powerful capitalist economy to grind the fascists into the ground--followed by forty years of keeping another group of expansionist dictators at bay.
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| parent )The K Codes explained HERE.
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| parent )...why did you take good enough care of yourself to reach your age?
You do not practice as you preach.
Neither, for that matter, have the key figures of this administration.
Plus, if you are bored by anything except the worship of strength, then you've got a problem which nobody else needs to pay for.
--My country, right or wrong is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying... It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.' -Chesterton
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| parent )That's just a silly comment on every level. You don't have any idea what I practiced and you failed to note that I'm not not preaching, merely saying that dying by the sword beats dying of boredom or pancreatic cancer. Since I'm not bored and do not have pancreatic cancer, your allegation is miles off the mark. As frequently happens.
Worship of strength has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
You can recalibrate and give it another try or just walk off... :)
--The K Codes explained HERE.
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| parent )Um.
--"In the very long run, we are all dead." -- John Maynard Keynes, 1st Baron Keynes
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| parent )Airplane Division, this just in about 45 minutes ago:
"Kerry's a dumba$$ twit but he's not stupid enough to say something like that. He needs to fire his f%*($@g speech writer. Who gives a spit. Do those a$$h0!es know or care there's a freakin' war goin' on..."
(Note: A reasonably accurate and cleaned up approximation of the consensus of discussion after a training meeting held this afternoon. As reported over the telephone by an unnnamed US Army Official who is not authorized to speak to the press on this matter)
Works for me.
--The K Codes explained HERE.
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)My understanding is that the writer was not at fault, Lurch just muffed his line at the end and dropped an "us". Grace under pressure is a rare thing. :^)
That said, all's fair in love and politics.....
---“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009
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| parent )You mean Airborne?
--"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
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| parent )assigned, it is Airplane, Airspace, Airpocket, Air bubble, Air brake and a number of unprintable things. It's also, from the patch "Almost Airborne" and "All A......." and other less savory names. Most frequently it's just "the deuce."
Nobody in the service calls hardly anything by its proper name; isn't cool and you gotta be high speed and low drag or you're a cheese ball, rog?
--The K Codes explained HERE.
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| parent )parachutists. Sounds like a crater party.
--"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
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| parent )The K Codes explained HERE.
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| parent )he knows someone who works over at the old Boeing plant on 82d street...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )The K Codes explained HERE.
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| parent )““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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)Tomsyl offers this video and solicits opinions--yet he gets 10 negative votes? Do that many people on this site seriously believe that there should be no video link to Kerry's words? That they are in no way newsworthy, however distorted or over-the-top the reactions of others in the blogosphere (or however weighted the post's title)? What if George Allen or Joe Lieberman had uttered them? Would we see the same number of votes against them? To my mind Kerry made some Prozac-addled, rambling statement equating doing poorly with school to the reality of his (and my) own youth--that if you flunked out, you got drafted. He was, I would guess, merely geezing. But his words were, nonetheless, newsworthy--after all, he was very nearly our current president, and the video indicates that he would have been little more mentally acute than the one we actually have, who is constantly derided for his stupidity (see the above post).
Thank goodness no one took seriously the suggestion that enough negative votes cause a post's disappearance; obviously the appetite for 'democratic' censorship runs hot here.
I had hoped that, post-Tacitus, this sort of rabid partisanship might soften. Obviously, I was wrong. We need to rethink the voting tool and maybe go back to the Tacitus model.
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)Straight from the talking points blast fax.
That's why I voted it down.
Kerrry insulted Bush. Not the troops. If you'd stop the hyper-partisan twisting and spinning I would give your opinions more weight. As it is, it's just a partisan food fight, and doesn't belong on the front page.
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| parent )Maybe that explains more concisely than my other comment why I down-voted this.
--The purpose of torture is torture. —Orwell
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| parent )You know, where this remark follows several digs at President Bush. That clarifies the ambiguity of who is referred to in the stuck part—it's still a riff on the Bush guy.
I know it's driving the right wing crazy the the echo chamber is breaking down just as the MSM is folding. (See ABC grovel to Hugh Hewitt here.) The plan was simple: an ambiguous or stumbling statement would be taken out of context and then the video would be blasted all around the VRWC, completely drowning out any attempt to explain it. By the time the explanation caught up, GOP election prospects would be salvaged. I was perfectly serious that we've seen this already with the Webb novels, and with the completely trivial issue of Harry Reid, his limited partnership, and his real estate transactions. And we've seen Dems do this to each other: the "Dean scream" was a sonic artifact of a parabolic microphone that removed the crowd noise over which Dean had to yell to be heard.
The VRWC also seems unable to get around Kerry's refusal to apologize, but instead reiterated that Bush's Iraq policy has failed (the opinion of about sixty percent of the country). Now the same bloggers who, two years ago, snickered about his spinelessness and love of nuance are denouncing his very plain explanation that will drive this non-story off the front pages in a day.
It's a great pleasure to down-arrow this small component of the dishonest conspiracy.
--The purpose of torture is torture. —Orwell
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| parent )You said: The plan was simple: an ambiguous or stumbling statement would be taken out of context and then the video would be blasted all around the VRWC, completely drowning out any attempt to explain it.
Two things jumped out at me when I read this: Given the $$$ he's already married into, how much did the RNC have to pay John Kerry to get him to make this particular statement at this particular point in time? And exactly when did YouTube (with its limitless Jon Stewart library) become part of the VRWC?
"Dishonest conspiracy", eh? OK boys, Lazarus is on to us - time to change the bugs in his toilet and sink, and ixnay on the hollow pumpkin.
And Andrew, if you want to see the whole clip, find it and post it here. I couldn't, and apparently neither could Kerry's fixers. Maybe Bob Shrum has it.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )(and I wear the Left's disapproval as a badge of honor) but I see it relates to Front Page status. This diary was never intended as anything more than a straightforward solicitation of comments on and about the Kerry YouTube video. If I could vote on it, I would vote myself for it to remain a diary. But then, I would never join a club that would accept someone like me as a member etc.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )We could also move to a "recommend only" system, where tehre are no negative votes, only positive ones.
But let's give it some time to evolve. The one thing I have noticed is a pattern of people only voting down things instead of contributing positive votes. Negative votes certainly do contribute to hard feelings and mistrust, and maybe it would produce a more civil atmosphere to try to bias our voting patterns in favor of up votes, or eliminate down votes altogether.
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| parent )I hope that isn't the case. If it is, the votes shouldn't be listed.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )Given who voted how, I consider myself to be well ahead of my opponent, and expect his, her or its concession speech before the evening is done.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent ):)
Seriously, I didn't vote either way, which is the usual state of affairs - frankly the diary is on a ridiculous topic, but then again, half of the stuff discussed here revolves around ridiculous topics. Like it matters what the 2004 presidential loser said - thats a real important issue facing the nation that we need to discuss in depth.
In any case, after watching a few hours of 'news' tonight, I'd got a picture of the whole context of the quote - as in the two or 3 sentences that precede the line shown in your video. Those lines put the quote in context; they make it quite clear to anyone who can construct a paragraph that Kerry was suggesting one shouldn't get into messes by being intellectually lazy (don't be like bush) as opposed to being sent to Iraq because one was uneducated.
So, I come back here, and finally click on your link, and low and behold, its just the one line.. no context. So you get a -1, not for the opinion, but for the (my impression at the time) deliberate truncation of the statements to produce a false impression (a lie by omission is still a lie). Then, just to make the point clear, I hit google trying to find a transcript or video that includes the entire context. And what happens? Well, I can't find it. Sure, half the news articles (the ones that aren't on Fox or newsmax) put the quote into some sort of context, but do they link to a transcript? No.
My conclusion: it isn't your fault that you didn't link to the transcript, because even though the reporters read it (C. Matthews at least claims he has), they don't feel like sharing it with anyone else. So IMO they deserve the -1 rating, and this diary should get a zero; since I can't 'unvote', you get a +1.
I know, its a gripping narrative, but I just couldn't help sharing my frustration with the media.
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| parent )AFA a deliberate truncation of an on-line video, if I knew how to do this I would be writing attack ads for Harold Ford instead of posting wildly popular diaries here.
PS. I went trick-or-treating in a dreadlock wig while you watched a few hours of TV on "a ridiculous topic." Now do you know why I carried Florida even though I'm (according to some here) nothing more than a comment-bot? Click. Beep.
Here's a real comment-bot I've grown quite fond of. Just hit "RANT" and away you go.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )I prefer http://www.pakin.org/complaint
an example:
In response to Mr. Tomsyl's bait-and-switch tactics, I would like to offer the following opposing points. It is worth noting at the outset that Mr. Tomsyl somehow manages to maintain a straight face when saying that he's the best thing to come along since the invention of sliced bread. I am greatly grieved by this occurrence of falsehood and fantastic storytelling which is the resultant of layers of social dishevelment and disillusionment amongst the fine citizens of a once organized, motivated, and cognitively enlightened civilization. Daily, the truth is being impressed upon us that his editorials are an icon for the deterioration of the city, for its slow slide into crime, malaise, and filth. Mr. Tomsyl is unctuous, power-drunk, empty-headed, scabrous, brainless, and uncompanionable. Need I go on? Furthermore, it's debatable whether if his peons get their way, society as we know it will cease to exist. However, no one can disagree that our path is set. By this, I mean that in order to demonstrate conclusively that Mr. Tomsyl is as licentious as he is hateful, we must oppose him and all he stands for. I consider that requirement a small price to pay because it is not my goal to promote promiscuity and obscene language, but the opposite. Period, finis, and Q.E.D.
Give it a whirl! ;)
In any case, old people (here old means mid 30's, as opposed to the geologic time-span of ken white) look silly when they go trick-or-treating. Also, the few hours of 'news' was not soley confined to only one ridiculous topic - there were also many lively discussions about 'attack ads' for example.
Now do you know why I carried Florida .. um, because you extorted candy from old folks while wearing a Dreadlock wig? Must be some race card tactic.
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| parent )Absolutely the best comment yet - truly without peer! (Though the "uncompanionable" part was a bit of a low blow.)
Need I go on? Absolutely. But just so you know, I already oppose myself and all I stand for, which is why I carried Fla.
AFA "attack ads" are concerned, did you see the Harold Ford "bimbo" ad, and if so, did you catch her 900 phone number? I have a, uh, "friend" who would like to call her this evening.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )...the one so radically biased in favor of their Leftie, pseudo-commie, America hating, helping AQ to defeat the United States and all that is good and gracious in the world...
THAT media didn't provide even scrap of a transcript for context?
I'll tell you one thing about the Media, very much like Oshama Bin himself, they will do anythng to keep the Republicans in power to keep this war going. It's great for them and just fine for Al Queda.
That's really hating America.
Hey, Timmy was right all along. The MSM does Hate America.
Best Wishes,
Traveller
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| parent )I'm against the idea that any diary can be voted out or disappeared as a result -- unless of course it violates the posting rules. It's counter to the spirit of the place we're occupying.
And it's hard to post a dumber diary than this one.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )but your gratuitous nastiness still startles me sometimes.
Whether you like it or not, Kerry's gaffe (assuming that's all it is) is national news. I put it up as soon as I saw it online (keep in mind that I'm five hours behind the East Coast) and solicited comments. Most people have gotten into the debate over whether an insult to the troops was intended or not, whether the affair's important, insignificant, a rallying point, a diversion, etc.
But you and a few others have chosen instead to make repeated personal attacks, accusing me of lying, misrepresentation, collaboration with the RNC, promoting "talking points", everything except for fabricating the video itself. I've concluded that you and your fellow leftie name-callers are actually the ones who take the Kerry video most seriously. You must be terribly concerned that it will somehow adversely affect the outcome of the election that you're already preparing to celebrate, which is a point I never remotely attempted to make here.
Either that, or you got way too much black licorice and not enough red whips in your goody bag tonight.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )More dishonesty. Now you're saying, 'Hey, All I Did Was Put Up Kerry's Gaffe So Good Folks Could Discuss It in A Calm and Reasoned Manner.'
Are you kidding? There is no question mark in the diary title. You talk about gaffes now, but only because so many of us brought it to your attention. You were, like many wingers, ready to jump on what looked like a tasty partisan morsel, not to mention a truly bizarre Hail Mary, in the closing days of the campaign season.
I'd suggest pretending otherwise is a day late. Halloween being, you know, over.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )Kerry's taking a day off to lick his wounds - why don't you?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )I'm not altogether surprised. It's about time.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )--
--The purpose of torture is torture. —Orwell
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| parent )Either that, or you got way too much black licorice and not enough red whips in your goody bag tonight.
If this is your example on how not to be nasty, I'd say you are failing.
--My country, right or wrong is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying... It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.' -Chesterton
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| parent )or you missed H's earlier post saying he was going trick-or-treating with his daughter. But whatever, do you really think that comment is nasty and equates to Harley's statement that "it's hard to post a dumber diary than this one"?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )-
--The purpose of torture is torture. —Orwell
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| parent )Your comment makes no sense unless you are accusing YouTube of something. Is this the VRWC schtick again?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )wow, what a great website!
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| parent )the diary was short and focused, well done and please keep it up. :)
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )the ones who write a diary be allowed to see who voted yay or nay?
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )The interpretation in question is that Kerry, a decorated combat veteran, did not stumble and forget the "us," but rather actively sought to denigrate the men and women who serve this country.
Anyone who chooses to believe this reveals far more about his or her character than anything Kerry could possibly reveal about his own.
--"In the very long run, we are all dead." -- John Maynard Keynes, 1st Baron Keynes
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| parent )Kerry's Winter Soldier testimony, enough said.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )why not delete every comment that shares this sacrilegious view? And all the newspapers that reported it? Maybe we can DoS CNN's website off the air if we all band together . . .
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )I voted not to promote the view, which I saw as obviously wrong, to the front page.
I voted JM's diary up because even though I thought he was very much wrong, it provoked a useful discussion.
In addition, if I were the news director at CNN, I wouldn't run stories which claimed that Kerry's intention was to slander our fighting men and women.
--"In the very long run, we are all dead." -- John Maynard Keynes, 1st Baron Keynes
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| parent )It's just a diary. Some even seem to have had fun with it. My DoS comments were obviously tongue-in-cheek (not that I wouldn't be tempted now and again . . .)
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )you could vote to front-page or dump. essentially the same here except it applies to diaries.
It's just more fun to see the votes on the diaries. now you can judge who's interested in quality vs. ideological similarity. Take sulla for isntance. he's voted for every crappy conservative diary no matter how bad, but i've never seen him vote for a liberal diary.
this is the baby stage. if sulla doesn't change (and username on the left is the same) neither will ever get the support of anyone who doesn't agree and will never get to post anything controversial.
i think the voting will migrate beyond simple conservative vs. liberal. people will have to appeal to both sides' sense of quality if they want to get on the front page. they'll have to build up cred and not vote wildly against anything they dsiagree with or no one disagreeing with 'em will ever give 'em their vote.
i say we watch it evolve.
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| parent )The front page will not get dumped and neither will a diary. The postive and negative vote only determines if it goes to the front page. It's not like the former site because if something is submitted as a front pager and doesn't pass the test it will become a diary (at least how I understand it)
Oh, if an existing fr. pager gets too many negative votes it will be demoted to a diary.
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )tho the old 'dump it' vote didn't mean it actually got deleted. it just meant it didn't get to go on the front page. kinda like here.
i guess i'm the only one who wants the collective deleting action. in my delusions i thought KWhite might have a lecture about not being risk averse up his sleeve and Kierk. might write something about marketing in the new millenium. oh well. i'll give it a rest.
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| parent )I certainly haven't. I voted for yours for instance. And a couple of jackson mead diaries and for a macallan diary.
But this diary is thinner than air and its title jumped to unwarranted conclusions. I voted tokeep it off the front page. i would've voted the same if it were an R or Lieberman mis-speak and tomsyl hasn't earned any points with me for not simply admitting the obvious at this late hour: he mischaracterized what was a simple flub as an intentional insult.
And you're the one who wanted to vote members out of the community but now can't stand a little crappy diary depletion? toughen up.
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| parent )I will never vote against a conservative diary that is honest, thoughtful, and clearly written. In fact, I have already voted for such diaries more than once.
But if something is lazy, dishonest, trivial or a combination of all three, I will grasp the opportunity of expressing that without necessarily getting bogged down in comments.
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| parent )but not the others.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )don't forget their kindness!
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| parent )which is being discussed, not anything that wicked dog Timmy would roll out.
But thanks for noting the good fellowship of model62 and JayC. Well done! :)
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )he's the first to figure out how to do it.
i didn't vote against your diary about your diaries disappearing. seemed like a legitimate question to me. but i didn't vote for it because you keep flirting with accusations of intentional deletion and that's unwarranted. still waiting for MA to weigh in.
but anyway i'm more interested in you building credit/surprising me, though maybe some day i'll have to come beggin'. stranger things have happened...
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| parent )and while we agree on very few things, I've always enjoyed Spin's honest give and take. Armando and RedDan have similar credit lines, as does Harley.
Second and related, I have no problems with negative votes on my diaries. And I don't vote to move things to the front page and I don't vote to remove them. I leave those decisions to others. Notwithstanding, tomsyl's diary belonged on the front page IMHO.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )is not a vote for censorship. It's a vote against Front-paging it.
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| parent )only mean it will not be front paged. It will NOT disappear* It will remain a diary.
* It does have a bug however in that the writer of said diary can choose to delete it. Apparently when that happens all the comments will also delete. I think that needs work ASAP.
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )I beg to differ, just speaking from experience on this issue.
The count so far two of my diaries have disappeared.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )and I'm also waiting for an explanation.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent ).
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent )a wrench into that theory. Let me try to delete mine from yesterday and see what it does.
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )it'd take some heavy rewriting to change that.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Just Kidding you guys, as always, are doing a great job etc. etc. But all the posted comments as well? The diary commentator, hey I just thought of this, could conceivably post a diary, save a version of it, then delete the diary with all the comments and then repost it out of spite. Poof no more negative comments! Granted not everyone would do such a thing...(in a hushed tone) probably one of the more nefarious elements of this site like Ken or Jackson Mead.
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )a large hole if you ask me. I just deleted my diary and reposted it with the original comments but I could have just as easily left them off...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )Need to grow mustache, so as to twirl it for nefarious affect.
--Will crush dissent for food
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| parent )after that no one will forget.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )number like -100 points so it effectively negates the impact?
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )just promotion/demotion from the front page.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )oh wise one.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )WM accidently put "unpublish" as part of the voting process. Fixed now.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )it's all WM's fault!...huh...HankP! :)
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )especially for volunteer work. Let's just say that mistakes have been made.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )just a comma, right?
A week before the election this entire issue (Kerry being a doofus, and he is a doofus IMHO) is merely a transparent effort to occupy the bandwidth.
Seven days from the election, this subject is NOT bandwidth worthy. IMHO.
Nor is the kerfluffle over Webb's novel(s).
Now, on 8 November I will be happy to discuss why John Kerry is indeed a doofus. Until then, George Allen's staff assaulting a heckler is more interesting. As well as Webb being up in the latest polls.
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )see my diary. And that's the President, not a junior senator.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I mean, that's what Timmy promised us in his diary. And instead, Webb gained about five points in the polls. I guess that's because one of those naughty books is recommended reading in the Marine Corps. I didn't know that, much less an average voter in Virginia. Gosh, why does George Macacawitz Allen and the rest of the GOP hate the troops?
Now the last gasp hope is that John French Kerry has uttered the magic words to save the GOP from losing the House. Sorry, guys. Kerry's response—if he'd sounded like that in 2004 he'd be President now—just serves to remind everybody that George Bush is wasting our troops' lives with his stand-still-and-lose policy. Bush has made it clear that for him, victory is leaving our soldiers to die (not to mention Iraqis) all the way to the end of his term rather than have his dad be able to tell him, "You screwed up again, son." The idea of some sort of livable Iraq as "victory" vanished many months ago, back when the Administration thought the insurgency was in its last throes.
--The purpose of torture is torture. —Orwell
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)please edit or provide a link.
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )if not Democratic chances in the election based on sex? While it's true that your diaries often seem to me like koans, this time the title was meaningful.
--The purpose of torture is torture. —Orwell
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| parent )Geeze. Do the Posting Propriety Police prohibit posts within ten days of an election that at least one side insists is outcome-determinative? How could this possibly affect the election when Kerry isn't up for reelection and apparently is so low on the party spokesman totem pole that he's campaigning for a loser like Angelides?
I posted an interesting and controversial video and solicited comments on same, without even mentioning the upcoming elections. AFA Webb's writing is concerned, obviously he is running for office, and I am on record as saying that the text of his novels is completely irrelevant to his (un)fitness for office.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )John Kerry is a doofus, film at 11. Malapropisms from Dubya are quite plentiful as well.
Yawm . . .
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )But if it wasn't interesting, why did you swoop on my comment so fast that I couldn't even edit out grammatical errors?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )~
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )xxx
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )I get it. It's for Halloween! "The Vampire Leasat
You can't edit it now...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )grumble, grumble.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )and the ghosts and goblins are starting to come out. (Hint, hint.)
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )Kerry's a lousy public speaker, and McCain's a nasty opportunist.
--"In the very long run, we are all dead." -- John Maynard Keynes, 1st Baron Keynes
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)apparently some kids are reading this while waiting for their parents to take them trick-or-treating. Just because they're taught about mastication in fourth grade (yet another sign that the liberals and the teachers' unions are taking over the country) doesn't mean they have to see it here, too.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.
--"In the very long run, we are all dead." -- John Maynard Keynes, 1st Baron Keynes
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| parent )and proud of it!
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )well almost
--““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!””
–H
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| parent )Normally, something like this would work to Republican advantage. A pet whipping boy has said something that can reasonably be interpreted as an actual example of a beloved strawman come to life, the "troop-hating liberal." And it wouldn't really matter how clear it became that Kerry actually didn't mean that at all, you would still see some voter interview on the evening of an election talking about how Kerry saying the troops were dumb was the deciding factor in the race.
This one might work differently.
To start with, looking at this incident in the context of the election as a whole, it's just hard to imagine a significant cohort of voters being moved by something said by a party has-been who isn't even on the ballot. This just isn't that significant, and there's no doubt that there are real issues in this race and voters are thinking about them.
But even beyond that, this might backfire--and as a Democrat, I'm glad that Kerry fought back instead of appearing contrite. And I'm ready to go ahead talking about this.
To start with, never forget the significance here a week before the election of the fact that Democrats are leading by 15-20% in national generic-ballot polls. Simply put, people are dug in by now and most of the dug-in folks are going to interpret for their side. It's not fair, but that's the way things work this close to an election, and it gives Democrats a significant advantage in anything that is open to interpretation.
More substantively, it's hard not to see the Republicans' concerted attack by the President, Vice President, and probably the most prominent non-Administration Republican politician on a single throwaway remark by a non-candidate as an over-reaction, and its continuation as somewhere along the spectrum between dishonest and severely ungenerous, in short as a severe over-reaction by desperate losers. And what makes this interpretation particularly attractive, I think, is how nicely it dovetails with all the attention paid during the past week to what has looked like unsavory and desperate Republican campaign tactics--the Corker ads, Limbaugh's attacks on Fox, Allen's press release promoting racy novel bits, and more. Those stories have been the biggest political stories of the past week, and this has just the profile to feed right into that already-existing dynamic.
And, of course, it's about Iraq.
As a citizen, I'd like to see us talking about the genuine issues of the day, but as a Democrat I wouldn't mind us spatting about this for another day or two. It's pretty easy to see Kerry's point of view once you get the context, and that's what extra coverage will provide.
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). . .but I've got enough pairs of rose-colored glasses--and these look like a model from 2002 or 2004 that had their users running into brick walls and stepping on their privates with golf shoes.
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| parent )your comments a week from now.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )- reply
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| parent )I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )But the volume is set to 11.
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| parent )“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )-NYTimes
He's talking about Bush. Not the troops. MmmmmK?
Good god, doesn't anybody understand context?
False outrage, putting words into his mouth, erecting strawmen. Is that all we can expect at this point? Is that the best you can do? It's "Al Gore invented the internet" all over again. Disingenuous smears from people who know they're being disingenuous.
And as such, beneath the level of discourse that this site should be promoting.
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)wants to see a longer video so we can see what Kerry said before/after the ten second YouTube clip I linked to. I don't trust your NYT cite because it's not a straight quote, and I've learned to scrutinize their text very carefully.
Despite your "false outrage", CNN had exactly the same take on Kerry as "telling college students they'd get "stuck in Iraq" if they didn't study hard." And why would Kerry himself call his words a "botched joke" if he said exactly what he meant?
You're pretty far behind the curve on this one, but I did enjoy the "MmmmmK". I'm guessing either BDS-related primal scream therapy or New Guinean pygmy argot.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )And a link that actually works. It is in no way similar to your characterization -- maybe the link broke itself in shame -- but is rather the usual even-handed coverage of an evolving story: Kerry says his botched a joke about G.W. Bush, Bush and the GOP are delighted to take advantage and talk about something else for a news cycle.
Yawn. I wouldn't be snarkin' to folks about curves.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )What you refer to as "my characterization" (which you call "dishonest" in your comment No. 6081) is a direct quote from the "even-handed" CNN article you linked to. Again, CNN says Kerry was "telling college students they'd get "stuck in Iraq" if they didn't study hard." The article said that, not me, but calling a direct quote "my characterization" shouldn't really surprise anyone, as that's pretty much what you've been trying to do with the video itself.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )Your characterization was dishonest becuz you purposefully made it sound as if CNN, those 'lefty darlings', agreed with your opinion re what Kerry said. This is patently dishonest. Full stop. CNN reported the accusation and the defense/explanation. In other words, both sides.
Don't you have anything better to do? I do. I'm taking a Princess trick or treating. Enjoy your hard won victory...
..Over John Kerry. Heh.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )Go ahead - run off. I'm three time zones behind so the reach of my whip is longer.
I think we're seeing some obvious duck and cover by you here, Harley. I directly quoted CNN (could you have missed the quote in the article the first time around because it was in the upper left-hand corner under the picture? It would be mortifying to see it after I pointed it out, eh?) So in your book quoting CNN is "patently dishonest"? But CNN's story was balanced, you say, because they pointed out Kerry's position that he was making a joke. But my comment no. 6071 says exactly that, so the soy beef substitute is exactly where?
Sorry if the "lefty darlings" remark stung, though. I'll think of something worse next time.
I'm at work, so no, I don't have anything better to do.
AFA T&Ting, I'm taking the son out later, and will be wearing a four-foot length of dreadlocks he bought me. Video on YouTube tomorrow . . .
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )xxx
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )And like the typical "won't shut up when you mention the kids" parent, I'll say that I actually learned a lot about Rastafarians, Haile Selassi, Ethiopia etc. at his instance. I ignorantly thought Rastas were just dopers till I did some research on the net.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )here's my chance to post some very nice links I found while musing around the internet:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/davebulow/wow/index.htm
http://hem.passagen.se/ielbo/wail/wailerbi.htm
These sites remind me why I love (some) reggae music so much. Whether one agrees with the interpretation and use of the biblical passages or not, I personally find a degree of wisdom within them. I'd love to try to elaborate, but alas schoolwork rears its ugly head.
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| parent )which I'll examine in detail and pass on to my son. I've always loved Marley's brand of reggae but never delved into the background of the religion and now I'm finding how deep the well is.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )they hate the Pope, too!
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Sounds like a Mary Poppins song.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent ). . .the playbooks from 2002 and 2004 coming out for the Democrats--odd that they don't seem to remember what happened when they used them before.
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| parent )Tho' the dishonesty displayed by the usual suspects should not be confused with the basis for this diary. Kerry dropped a pronoun. Tomsyl was misinformed.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )xxx
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )And in context, it's not at all unclear that this was meant as a Bush joke. However, KDS drove him to an early diary. Hey, act in haste, repent at leisure.
The diary, as we all now know, is inaccurate, even if the scorn, however familiar, would remain in any case.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )The diary, as we all now know, is inaccurate
Based on what, uh clem's cite to a fragment of an NYT article? Speak for yourself (and your H'wood artisans - maybe a little CGI here, some SFX over there and voila! it's Howard Dean making the statement instead of Kerry, and he's telling the students to study hard so they can "paint like Braque.")
And as I pointed out above to Mr. Uh, the lefties' darling, CNN, recognized that Kerry was "telling college students they'd get "stuck in Iraq" if they didn't study hard." Wouldn't your time be better spent calling on CNN for a retraction than campaigning here as a majority of one?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )I mentioned your dishonest comment and broken link elsewhere. I'd suggest CNN doesn't need to make a retraction. And the comment about this diary stands. You, like a lotta partisans, have finally got Kerry right where you want him -- actually, given where he is, I'm not sure what the value of this exercise is, but hey, whatever floats your boat -- and you're going to enjoy this to the fullest, even if the truth of the matter in no way supports your watery scorn.
The "lefties' darling". Heh. Is there a comment-bot that auto-writes this stuff?
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )Look, the best thing that can be said is Kerry botched this badly. When I watched the clip the first five or six times it seemed obvious to me Kerry was insulting the troops.
Trickster provided an explanation that I'm pretty sure I buy, but Kerry has a history of insulting the troops both in Vietnam and Iraq and to rely on him saying "i'd never do that" as a justification for calling someon else dishonest?
Weak, really weak.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )I promise to never call a comment dishonest unless it is.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )There are plenty of blogs where we can call each other dishonest. We shouldn't add our shiny, new blog to that list.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )Love that song (but not as much as Bang and Blame).
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )because they accurately described what the video shows Kerry said. Kerry is a prominent politician so his statements (even if they turn out to be gaffes) are significant. But yes, I admit I enjoy seeing such a pompous ass squirm. And whatever he meant when he gave his speech, he certainly meant what he said subsequently on his website - that's what will come back to haunt him.
I'm not sure what watery scorn is, but please make mine eau de vie. The comment-bot is my nephew the struggling Hollywood scriptwriter.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )Gloves are off.
--"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
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| parent )because they're afraid to debate real men.
Helluva line, I've got to say.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent )I guess Kerry played the "straw man" there. %*>
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )good too. But he said the former the wrong way (at least) and the latter in the wrong circumstance. He's just clumsy (at best) and has no likability factor to fall back on. Even the Dems who voted for him didin't really seem to like him.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent ).
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent ). . .I'm sure having Kerry on every news show in existence oozing arrogance will just do wonders for the Democrats.
I wonder if Doctor Howie knows how to use a tranquilizer gun and a butterfly net?
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| parent )Apparently we require our leaders to have it and delight when they show it.
--"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
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| parent )....common complaints about Shrub is his seming unwillingness to just say "Yes, I screwed up." when he makes a mistake. :^) But Kerry can go on wi' his bad self. No biggee, but this display of "spine" isn't making him (or the Dems) look any better a week before an election.
---“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009
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| parent )and all that.
Probably a wash outside partisan circles.
--"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
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| parent )xx
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )Wrong URL for the video? Photoshopped by Rove? What?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )The K Codes explained HERE.
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| parent )Used as a tool to spread talking points is more like it.
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| parent )Look, the GOP and wingers within have had an absolutely horrible time of it. Scandal after scandal, the Iraq failure and the ideological failure that created it -- c'mon, it's been a rough road.
And if this site is any indication, they're all spoilin' for a fight they can actually win, something they can argue about from an advantageous position. In other words, the defense has been on the field for much much too long. Time to let the offense play.
This will lead to hysterical overreaction for approximately 24 more hours. Enjoy!
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )Remember, we're just simple conservatives here on this side of the fence.
When I see something dumb/offensive/newsworthy or otherwise likely to incite comment here, I'm inclined to post it. If I went through all the nefarious calculations, checking with the Black Prince of the VRWC, consulting with my minions, etc. that you and other lefties credit me with, I'd fall asleep long before I could get off a diary.
Actually, I think the "hysterical overreaction" is all yours. This video scared the crap out of Kerry supporters and lefties in general when it first appeared. Then the Kossified masses rallied and unified behind the "it's so painfully obvious that he didn't say what he so obviously said that you're nuts for thinking he said that" argument. It's a short step from there to "anyone who disagrees is a partisan idiotarian desperately seeking a mate" meme, which is sorta where you are now.
Three words: Watch. The. Video.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )Do you really want to make it a rule that misstatements should be taken at face value now? Don't forget, George Bush is President.
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| parent )nt
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )Remember "the terrorist is always trying to think of ways to harm the American people, and so are we." Where there demands for apologies then?
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| parent )have apologized?
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )Obviously, jm, he misspoke. No apologies are owed. Just as obviously, Kerry misspoke. You know that and so does every other conservative on this board. You can't criticize the poverty of the debate and then run this sort of nonsense up the flagpole.
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| parent )Kerry has a long history of criticizing the troops, from the Winter Soldier Campaign to the current conflict. You can choose to believe him when he says "I'd never do that," that being something he has repeatedly done. He deserves not a shred of benefit but it sure isn't obvious
that's the right way to think about it.
His disgraceful response is even more telling.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )When has he criticized the troops during the current conflict?
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| parent )even Joe disagrees with you. But if you want to run with it go for it...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )we're too "into" nuance? Whadda' I win?
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )Heh. I'm not sure I know any. And yes, the desperation is rather apparent. Three words. I. Don't. Care.
And your CNN link/comment, still unacknowledged (gee, wonder why) remains inaccurate and/or dishonest.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )or just ignore your hissy fits.
You said: And your CNN link/comment, still unacknowledged (gee, wonder why) remains inaccurate and/or dishonest.
My response: I have pointed out to you twice (posts 6090 and 6105) that my original post 6071 simply and accurately quoted a CNN article. To your embarrassment, you apparently missed the quote (which was under the photo iin the CNN article)and thought you were reading my take on the article. Intead of admitting your mistake, you are blathering on about some "inaccurate and/or dishonest"" comment I supposedly made WRT the CNN article.
State specifically what I said, with a reference to a comment number, and how it is "inaccurate and/or dishonest." IOW, put up or shut up. No weasel words, generalities, "I'm getting my hair done that week" or other cop-outs.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )Here's the quote from your comment:
Despite your "false outrage", CNN had exactly the same take on Kerry as "telling college students they'd get "stuck in Iraq" if they didn't study hard." And why would Kerry himself call his words a "botched joke" if he said exactly what he meant?
The latter gives one very clear impression. That CNN agrees with your interpretation of Kerry's remarks. That is patently false. CNN reported, as is their wont, both sides of the story. In other words, they reported the GOP accusations, they reported Kerry's explanation.
CNN did not have 'exactly the same take' as you did. They had no take at all. They merely reported the story as it evolved. Suggesting otherwise was meant specifically as a response to comments criticizing your position -- in other words, you attempted to use CNN to support your interpretation.
That's disingenuous at the least, dishonest at the worst.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )It galls you to admit it (particularly WRT me) but you've been spinning like crazy for more than a day now, arguing that it was obvious that Kerry meant to insult Bush, not the troops. The CNN quote is there for all to see and interpret, just as it was in my comment.
Give it up already - you've already used up your admittedly extended lexicon of tomsyl-specific insults. Go bother someone else, kick your dog or something.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )better read joe's and mac's comments up thread or down thread as you prefer.
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )and none supports your presumed point that either of those posters feel it is obvious Kerry was referring to Bush rather than the troops.
Can someone tell me how to search for comments by name or number?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )On Exploder, Firefox, and Opera it's the same.
Hit Ctrl+F
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )quickest and best result with entering an unusual word, if any (and I can remember it...), from the comment in the Search box.
Number doesn't seem to work and the name will bring all mentions of the name...
--The K Codes explained HERE.
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| parent )and I looked through the whole thread. Give me comment numbers please.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )I have it on good authority that he's just talking about how Kerry could get out of his stupidity.
Rumor has it that Joe thinks Kerry does feel contempt for the troops, but he also feels contempt for about 95% of the population at large so it isn't anything special. But that couldn't be confirmed as we went to press. ;-)
--Will crush dissent for food
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| parent )Well done! No more digging!!
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )and personal attacks, as others here have. You apparently think they pass for factual responses, but your glib one-liners don't magically erase them.
You and I rarely agree, but I don't call you a liar, claim you're dishonest, say your diaries are the dumbest ever and should be withdrawn, etc. I think these rhetorical flourishes by you undercut your credibility as an otherwise able and articulate spokeman for the Left.
If you can point to instances where I have personally insulted you by calling you a liar, a dimwit, etc., point to them and I will retract. Otherwise, I think you should.
This is a general observation rather than a response to the above comment.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )C'mon, son. You screwed up. It happens. I'd suggest letting go now.
I have, more than once, discussed why your comment about CNN was misleading/disingenuous/dishonest. No need to rehash it here. And you can race around putting out fires like this all day if you want to. I'd suggest, again, that you simply move on to something more fruitful.
And yeah, this was a dumb diary. We've all written them. Now you have too. Get over yourself.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )without the slightest admission of or remorse for the insults and ad hom attacks. Guess your ego is bigger than I thought. Or hoped.
I'm not your son.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )You're not my son. And while I have done remorse in the past, I don't do it without reason. Read the thread. You'll find many many examples of folks who have a somewhat less than positive view of not only your CNN comment, but the diary itself. That's the way this one ran. Believe it or not, I had nothing to do with that, other than to offer my own ten cents (which after ego-inflation amounts to 5,000 dollars).
This is my last comment on the subject and in this thread. It seems a fitting place to finish. However, I urge you to take the last word if you desire it. You have earned it.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )he'll be taking the last word alright...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )why don't you answer my comment no. 6479?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )Jackson Mead 5866, 5858, Mac 5948, Joe 6396 (sorry Joe if you add contempt to both sides they cancel out).
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )They're already offensive....
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )Geesh. The botched joke that actually gave Bush a good news day. Sorta. (Oh. And Snow, and Boehner, and the rest of the fools on the Hill.)
And McCain most of all.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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)Everyone is united in their wish that the fool would go the way of Dukakis and Mondale.
--Will crush dissent for food
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| parent )I'm on a lab computer with no sound capability.
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)Kerry: "You know education - if you make the most of it and you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, ah, you, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )... I don't think it's that offensive, really.
While not strictly accurate, and a little bit tactless, maybe, he's generally right.
Don't we have better things to talk about that such trivialities?
(Points obviously at jackson mead's lack of debate diary.)
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| parent )*While not strictly accurate, and a little bit tactless, maybe, he's generally right.*
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| parent )... I just don't care enough to be accurate, until someone manages to guilt me into doing it by being unfailingly nice and charitable towards my creative misuse of terminology.
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| parent )""I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq.""
I guess this is what happened to our lacking debate.
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| parent )also amazing is what a totally uncharismatic guy can do to a halfway decent joke.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent )of course had he responded graciously
"I really said that? [hanging head, takes deep breath]. Boy did I screw that up. My apologies to all our fine troops who are always in my prayers and who have my gratitude and respect. What I meant to say was xyz etc, etc. But once again, I am very sorry for my clumsiness. I inteneded no harm and no slur on our troops. They represent the best of America." [Walks away]
He would have stopped this almost in its tracks.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )he would have about 900 times the charisma and savvy he in fact does... and then he would deserve to be Preznit in the first place.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent )I believe all the conservatives owe Kerry an apology. Full stop.
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )So far.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )expecting hyenas to own up to their nastiness rather than dishonestly hiding behind CNN's mistake.
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| parent )Thanks.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )First it was selectively editing the video - now it's "hyenas . . . dishonestly hiding behind CNN's mistake." In all seriousness, I have to ask: What the hee are you talking about? You guys are really starting to get out there with these accusations. Seen the (former) planet Pluto yet?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )In your comment 6071 you quote a from a CNN article part of the GOP characterization of Kerry's remarks:
Of two, one -- either:
- CNN is not endorsing the GOP characterization, in which case your claim is false; or,
- CNN is endorsing the GOP characterization, in which case CNN is mistaken.
In comment 6079 you then deflect the inaccuracy of your diary's ridiculous charges by claiming that:
...which is dishonestly hiding behind CNN. The only thing "out there" is the pathetic garbage being peddled by this diary.
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| parent )in a manner that is even more strained. This time you even made the mistake of quoting the wrong part of the article. Please read this carefully: The quote is taken directly from the CNN article. If you doubt this, go to the CNN article and read CNN's statement under Kerry's picture. The words there are CNN's. Not mine, Bush's, the GOP's, or Kim Jong Il's, but CNN's. Got it yet? If not, repeat above till clear.
The bit about "CNN endorsing the GOP characterization" must be something you made up on the spot; it sure didn't come from them or me.
Re my comment no. 6079, it's the same quote, so see above; repeat until clear.
Throwing around ad homs like "ridiculous charges" and "pathetic garbage" are an irrefutable sign that you have no substantive point to make.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )until you understand what "CNN is mistaken" means. Not Kim Jong Il, not Fidel Castro, not Evo Morales, but CNN. And you. Got it yet?
Various people have pointed out here that the context shows that Kerry was talking about Bush. You can either admit that your diary was peddling an obvious lie, or you can switch to the claim of only channeling CNN, as you seem to be telling Harley. Sad.
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| parent )As I read the news (but maybe you think I faked that too), there are very large numbers of "various people" that took Kerry exactly at his word and took his remarks the same way I and many others here did. If you think that is 'an obvious lie," you might want to give Kerry a jingle and tell him it's safe to come out of hiding.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )those very large numbers were all over on Red State...
--I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine
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| parent )at the very beginning. Right now, given what has come out, to insist that Kerry insulted the troops (meaning he meant to insult them not simply that they felt insulted) is to peddle a lie as even John Derbyshire at the Corner notes.
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )But the guy can't even deliver THAT short a line?
Can we start a list of Kerryism's? :)
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )Heh.
--“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco
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| parent )"Kerry is an idiot"--as many from both sides of the aisle have noted here--isn't a surprise to anyone.
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| parent )nt
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| parent )Kerry can't tell a joke to save his life.
That said, how many who are OUTRAGED I tell you! by this chuckled at the purple heart band aids at the RNC convention.
I don't blame him for getting testy in his response...he should have been this testy two years ago. Not that I even like the guy, but some of the BS that has been leveled against him regarding his own service has been detestable.
So I'm sure that the GOP will run with this soundbite...but it is more BS and they know it. Both sides have put out some stinkers this election, but the GOP has transcended stinker.
I am so sick of this...I'm going to write in Macacca as my candidate for Rep. this year.
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)If he's talking about the soldiers, it's thunderously dumb. The video is cut to make it seem like he's talking about the soldiers. Which is it?
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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)beloeved of the left for years. And way wrong for years...
Really wrong nowadays.
LINK.
--The K Codes explained HERE.
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)I think the troops are dumb. Really, really dumb. And I know at least one other liberal who thinks they're dumb. Really dumb. I've got his name right here, somewhere ... well, I can't find it right now, but trust me - the world is full of liberals who think the troops are dumb. They're all over the place - a silent majority, really. Boy, are those troops dumb.
Sheesh.
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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| parent )to the oft stated leftist mantra that the troops are made up of the poor and disadvantaged. Note that the link I provided doesn't address dumb and smart -- only the demographic makeup.
Sorry for my lack of clarity and dumb mistook in not saying what I meant.
Gee, that means I can be a Presidential canadidate... :)
--The K Codes explained HERE.
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| parent )Mr. Sebastien,
On the JROTC issue. The prevailing opinion among these people seems to be that military service is a scam victimizing societies' losers. As for others peddling that idea, you can add the likes of Charles Rangel, the NYT, the LAT, and innumerable others.
The joke here of course is the local JROTC kids are mostly Asians who constitute the local academic elite.
I must say that liberals in general have a great ability to deal with cognitive dissonance.
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| parent )The guy that won the Bronze Star and Purple Heart in Korea?
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| parent )Mr. Trickster,
And throw in a slew of his New York compatriots, just in this one piece -
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1108-29.htm
"The heaviest burden of war is being carried by less fortunate Americans," Rep. Charles Rangel (D-Harlem), a Korean War veteran, said yesterday. "
This is not a bit true btw., but it is the conventional liberal wisdom.
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| parent )Mr. Alegria:
Why is this not true? You are of course allowed to assert this, but the military has always been, and I believe, still is a path to some form of success for the disadvantaged.
Why do you thing this is not true today? You say this with such certainty.
Just curious.
Best Wishes,
Traveller
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| parent )Mr. Traveller,
They are of above-average intelligence (most of the bottom of the bell-curve is chopped off by the testing requirements), their median family income is at the US median, they are less criminal/drug addicted than the US average, and, racially speaking, the combat branches are disproportionately white.
In other words, they are predominantly a slice of those who have better prospects in civilian life.
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| parent )Thus you know that an American with a "median family income [that] is at the US median" is also an American family with an income that is significantly below average.
2005 median family income $86,053
2005 average family income $114,235
2005 average family income = 132.7% of median family income
Thus by your own data these are persons from families with a median income 32.7% below average. That's even before you adjust the numbers to account for the differences in income and education between officer recruits and enlisted recruits--because I am ready to assert that those bearing "the heaviest burden" are generally going to be the enlisted men, not the officers.
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| parent )Mr. Trickster,
It is pointless to use a mean. The numbers of the extremely wealthy are extremely small.
Young officers are, in all wars, killed and wounded at a greater rate than their men, I don't see why this should be a consideration.
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| parent )Its usually the Captains and Leutenants that get the
--chop.
Its just a model, you wouldn't want to bank on it.
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| parent )The point is in U.S. income disparity tables. Even though the total amount of wealth continues to grow at satisfactory rates, those increases aren't happening for the median American family, which has to live on a sum far below the average family income, and 32.7% is far below, enough to make a real difference when you're thinking about things like kids in college, orthodontics (not to mention health insurance) and the other expensive practicalities of family life.
Some of those high school graduates in families making 32.7% below average income, the ones that weren't quite scholarship-quality students, might've been a bit short on options. After all, that's the traditional reason that young folks join the military. Very few enlist with the intention of making a career of it, and even most young officers don't plan to do career hitches.
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| parent )You might find this helpful:
http://www.robertniles.com/stats/median.shtml
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )I have no idea what you're saying. And yes, I did read your link.
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| parent ). . .who has pushed for a draft and who thinks that advocating tax cuts is morally equivalent to being a KKK member?
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| parent )“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )What seems more likely: Kerry was calling Bush dumb, or the troops dumb? I realize that reality simply doesn't matter in an election cycle, but shouldn't it matter just a bit here in our little hamlet of reasoned discourse?
At any rate, no one should base any conclusions on the ten-second sound bite - the twenty-second sound bite provides the more accurate context.
I hate election season.
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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)"What is reality?"*
You said I realize that reality simply doesn't matter in an election cycle
What is unreal about the video?
*Heard in the background of Principal Poop's commencement address on Don't Crush That Dwarf . . . IIRC.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )I think it's pretty obvious what Kerry was saying.
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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| parent )On the 'dumb things to say one week before election day' scale this rates a 10 out of 10, but it wasn't a dig at the soldiers in Iraq. Kerry was speaking at a community college and he told the students there if they don't study hard (our 43rd President likes to brag about how he became President w/o studying hard) you might be unfortunate enought to start a war without end in the middle east.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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)xxx
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )let's assert that is what he meant.
Unfortunately for Kerry, he is every single bit as responsible for "getting stuck" in Iraq as Bush, so his statement is even more dense in your interpretation. And only gets more dense if he tries to hide behind the "if I knew now" canard.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )Kerry is certainly not blameless for getting us in Iraq, he voted for the authorization to invade Iraq and all that, but Kerry had little to do with the decisions made by and policies imprelmented by the WH in post-Saddam Iraq. As a result I don't think "he is every single bit as responsible for "getting stuck" in Iraq as Bush".
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )obviously is more responsible for the iraq situation.
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| parent )The farthest you could possibly argue would be that Kerry is as responsible as Bush for having originally gotten us in, and even that would be a laughable over-reach, comparing a single Senator voting for a policy to the Executive who engendered the policy and used all the force of his bully pulpit to ram it into existence.
But no matter how far you over-reach on defining pre-war equivalence, Kerry has had something pretty similar to 0% control over the conduct of the military operation in Iraq while Bush has had something pretty similar to 100% control. Bush got us stuck, dude, and there ain't no way around that.
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| parent )At the critical moment Kerry used 100% of the power of his office to "get us stuck" in Iraq.
Pretending otherwise only makes his statement look even more stupid. Then it turns into "I was conned by an idiot."
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )turns out great will you say that Kerry is as responsible for the outcome as Bush?
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )a pro war voting record, and/or offered affirmative alternative strategies for winning, or even criticism that the Admin should more agreesively seek victory, why shouldn't they?
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )I'll bet there was a pro-war dogcatcher somewhere who used 100% of the power of his office to get us into Iraq, too. Let's blame the war on him.
Causation and personal moral responsibility are two different things. Further, causation is a real thing that exists in the world, and statements about it may be "true" or "false," and not simply valuative.
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| parent )Kerry affirmatively voted to give the C in C the authority. He has no scapegoat here. If he thought Bush was an idiot or incompetent, Kerry's vote is beyond inexcusable. If he voted out of pure political expediency, he has no standing to comment on the execution of the war. If he voted with confidence in the C in C and DOD, but later decided he never should have done so, or that he had no idea it would be this hard; he's still totally responsible for a lack of due diligence required of his office.
Sorry, but your defense of him only changes the color of stupid, but doesn't remove the spotlight.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )That Kerry “is every single bit as responsible for "getting stuck" in Iraq as Bush”.
This is clearly wrong. Kerry is resposible for authorizing the war (or as much as one Senator out of one hundred can be) be he is certainly not responsible for how that war was carried out.
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )Is that Kerry just means that the DOD sucks.
OK.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )It means something. And obviously Rumsfield played a role in how this war was carried out.
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| parent )That Bush is an idiot and got us stuck in Iraq.
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )The background says "Angelides.com" so he was trying to generate votes for Schwartzenegger's Dem opponent for Cal governor.
Given Kerry's D average as a freshman at Yale and an overall GPA that was slightly lower than Bush's, how hard did he study? And doesn't this mean that he belongs in Iraq?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )did serve in a war zone, and the bush did not.
So I guess your right on the GPAs.
Or did they somehow 'prove' that Kerry was never
--in the military during the last election season.
Its just a model, you wouldn't want to bank on it.
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| parent )I did. Or don't words matter?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )backtrack from this gracefully. He blew it.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )Kerry really is a crappy politician. I agree with a lot of his positions, but he couldn't politic his way out of a wet paper bag.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )is Kerry weren't such an idiot.
He could simply say, "No, I wasn't insulting the troops. I was pointing out that the fool of a President we have did not study and he got us stuck in Iraq. Once again for GOPers that don't get it. When I said you get stuck in Iraq I was talking about George W. Bush."
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )It's really of a piece with his responses in '04 to swift-boating and to the canard that he was "against" body armor for the troops. Instead of issuing a brief, to-the-point refutation of the charges, he would say "These charges are scurrilous and I'm offended! [Ringing standard campaign rhetoric!!]"
OTOH, I'm watching him live on CNN right now, and he just called it "a botched joke about the President, not about the troops," which is pretty much right on and what he needed to say.
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| parent )the quote itself and the hysterical counterattack?
The sheepish, "Geeze I really blew that didn't I" with a smile and an apology would have likely made this go away quickly. But the initial response and Kerry's inability to look un-Patrician makes it hard for him.
I suspect this will mildly motivate the Republican base for a day or two, and that Kerry as national leader is now a dead letter.
We'll see.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )could do him in, then I suppose you're right. I disagree about Kerry's response, though - I'd be mad too if the most trivial of miscues led instantaneously to half the country going around claiming I'd insulted soldiers on the ground in Iraq. A lot of those troops will hear only the accusation without hearing the words and believe it. Your suggested response - while probably effective - isn't a very manly reaction to what amounts (I hope you'll agree) to character assassination of the highest order.
To this day, I remain bewildered that Kerry's service - whether ordinary or extraordinary - doesn't innoculate him against even the basest of slanders.
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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| parent )than others' reaction to the video. Hysteria in any form alienates voters. The statements on Kerry's website will appeal only to the same MoveOn.org, Soros, Code Pink, dKos etc. elements that have left the Dems in the cold because they are so far from the center that they scare away elements of their own party. (If you don't believe me, watch events unfold in Connecticut on Election Day.) Losing it in print the way Kerry just did demonstrates his unfitness for higher office.
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent )I think 'losing it' is actually a pretty respectable way of responding to attacks like this if you're anything besides a presidential aspirant. If I were Kerry, I'd like to kick some of these GOP Senators with their officious statements in the teeth. But you're probably right that a more measured response would be more Presidential.
If this were me, though? I'd have lost it, too.
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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| parent )blundered so there is similarity there.
Being angry and demonstrating near spitting while you talk anger are very different things. Only Kerry is to blame for what he said and how he said it. There is no character assassination involved on this one. The manly and mature reaction (not necessarily the needed political reaction) is to admit you blew it, apologize and move on. Kerry is demonstrating a temperament issue with the response.
Kerry's service, in my mind, inoculates him from the "coward, liar in Vietnam" charges. His despicable behavior once he returned certainly opened him to many things.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )about the temperament thing. A guy should have some truly thick skin to be President. Still - I respect the anger, even it doesn't suit him for the Presidency.
I don't see how this doesn't amount to character assassination though. It's everyday politics to assign the worst possible motivation to politician's words and actions, but there's gotta be a limit. When statement X can mean A or B, A is despicable, B is reasonable, and the politician says he certainly meant B, I think it's pretty bad to run around claiming the guy meant A.
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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| parent )I'm just not seeing it (unless this is an unfairly chopped video, which Kerry has thus far not claimed). He said the words. Given that he was speaking to a military aged audience and not a Presidential aged one, the "you" is most logically descriptive of the folk/s who "get stuck." In this context the most obvious immediate read is he is referring to the troops. Had he said "in the future" or "if you become President" or something like that he would not be in this fix.
I'm being charitable, not necessarily logical, in reading him as insulting the Prez. He's 100% to blame here. Nobody else.
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )and if Republicans were running around screaming 'Kerry's an idiot!' instead of 'Kerry insulted the troops!' we wouldn't be having this discussion.
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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| parent )I imagine he didn't mean to, and that he either muffed the line or was misbespeaking off the cuff. However, his actual words were insulting to the people "stuck in Iraq".
It's pretty strenuous mental gymnastics to go from:
"If X doesn't do Y, X will end up in Z"
To pretending that X wasn't really X along, but it was a never mentioned A.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )because there's no reason on Earth for Kerry to do that. There's no purpose to be served, no gain to be gotten - all he does is hurt himself. What possible motive could he have had? I think that if you can't name a motive, you're sort of obligated to go with his entirely reasonable explanation - I botched a joke about Bush. If you can name a motive - anything at all that Kerry stood to gain from insulting the troops - I'll grant that there's something to discuss here, but I don't think there is.
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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| parent )There is no purpose to be served, and I doubt he did it on purpose. At least I hope so.
What's worse, even if worded the way he wanted, it was politically worthless. How is a dumb aside about Bush going to help Angelides win? Angelides tried to make Bush an issue and only fell further behind in the polls. He already has those voters.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )But there're still a bunch of other political reasons for Kerry to show up at an Angelides event and bash Bush: To keep the base motivated to turn out; to attract the press to what would otherwise be Just Another Speech By The Guy Arnie Is Gonna Smoke; to demonstrate that you're a team player, even in a race as tough as Angelides'; to connect with potential volunteers for a future campaign; to kill time before meeting with Californian donors.
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| parent )In his response Kerry was pretty clear who he was referring to. You don't have to believe him, but for those of us who don't hate his guts already his explanation makes sense.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )for some who hate his guts.
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| parent )I'd very much like to believe him. I'd hate to imagine any U.S. Senator could intend such a thing. His problem (not mine btw) is that he doesn't have a great track record in this regard, and he only compounded it by not really copping to such an obvious error.
Instead of taking the full blame for misspeaking, he's trying to shift blame. It's his typical "How dare you question my patriotism" combined with the patented super-star apology trope "I'm sorry if anyone chose to be offended by my inoffensive comments"
All he had to do, is say, "Oh! I can't believe I said that. That's terrible, I never should have said it."
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )I think douchebag is close enough, don't you? :)
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )But he doesn't seem to know how to talk in plain language.
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )If Kerry were a front-runner for '08, he might be able to extricate himself with some vigorous damage control. But he's really not, he's a guy who is vigorously trying to intrude into a conversation that Democrats want to be about Hillary Clinton and/or Al Gore and/or John Edwards and/or Wesley Clarke and/or somebody else who is not John Kerry. He has--or had--virtually zero room for self-inflicted wounds. (For some reason, I'm thinking of Michelle Malkin and Chris Matthews right now. . . .)
Won't keep him from getting re-elected to the Senate when that comes up, though.
A more cogent question is whether this statement might have some impact on Nov. 7. I suspect you are about to hear some really vigorous denunciations of Mr. Kerry's remarks by a slew of Democratic candidates.
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| parent )is Phil Angelides. But that's only because he's dang near invisible already.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )Kerry Response
Senator John Kerry issued the following statement in response to White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, assorted right wing nut-jobs, and right wing talk show hosts desperately distorting Kerry’s comments about President Bush to divert attention from their disastrous record:
“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.
I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.
The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.
Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men. And this time it won’t work because we’re going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq.”
Um, when did Kerry hire Markos and Pumpkin Ash to write his press releases?
--I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!
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| parent )When I first followed your link I honestly thought this was a spoof website. Who in their right mind would use language like this? And in print yet, preserved for the next election cycle? He's either given up all hope of running again, or is convinced that he can get elected without a single conservative voting for him. What a complete idiot.
AFA "deliberately distorting Kerry's comments", is he referring to Karl Rove fabricating the video, perhaps with the help of Green Helmet Man and a few Reuters Lebanese stringers?
--Sincerity is the first casualty of capitalism. John Burdett
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| parent ). . .I see that The Prince of Windsurfing Trophy Husbands hired a token MA moderate to write his press releases--how adorable.
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| parent )And for what it's worth, good for the ones who do the denouncing.
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| parent )Everyone thinks you're a real jerk if you insist on standing outside the collective delusion stammering "er ... but it's transparently obvious that's not what he meant ..."
--"There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod." -Steve Jobs
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| parent )